Putin, arse, elbow

[transam]

Having listened to it several times can't say I noticed. You sure you aren't hearing things? There are pills that may help with that. Also some substances that can cause the problem.

Best you buy a radio than and listen
To radio 4 news

The subject was broached on there news at 7 pm

As for pills well you probably have to take a shed load

You probably rattle when you walk down the road

Got a problem with the news broad cast take it up with the BBC

And just because you never heard it you assume it cannot be so

Jeez us wept

 

[ajohn]

Best you buy a radio than and listen
To radio 4 news

Well as |R4 people can listen themselves and hear your distortion and the concerns "some" countries have about what they were requesting Putin to do. All over in the first few mins.

Six O'Clock News - 28/05/2022 Putin urged to hold "serious negotiations" with Zelensky - BBC Sounds

There are calls for fresh talks as Russian forces push further into eastern Ukraine

www.bbc.co.uk

There is no certaintly that the talks would influence Zelenskyy anyway. His stance is ever so clear.

 

[transam]

Well as |R4 people can listen themselves and hear your distortion and the concerns "some" countries have about what they were requesting Putin to do. All over in the first few mins.

Six O'Clock News - 28/05/2022 Putin urged to hold "serious negotiations" with Zelensky - BBC Sounds

There are calls for fresh talks as Russian forces push further into eastern Ukraine

www.bbc.co.uk

There is no certaintly that the talks would influence Zelenskyy anyway. His stance is ever so clear.

Well it’s just been reported on the news again

Thank you very much

Dunno if there are pills or medication available for your issue

It’s called the big ead syndrome
Some thing you suffer from constantly in this thread

 

[ajohn]

Thank you very much

Why not just admit you made your usual distortions of the news when it concerns certain countries?

 

[Justin Passing]

There are various "interpretations" of individual countries' actions, some of which have proved to be wrong. France kept quiet about some of the stuff it had sent, possibly to avoid annoying Putin more than necessary. Then it's come out that they're sending more, eg

France steps up support for Ukraine with 155mm artillery | Shephard

A dozen Caesar 155mm artillery systems will be delivered to Ukraine after France reverses a previous focus on providing defensive weapons.

www.shephardmedia.com

Germany was criticised for sending guns (or was it tanks?) without the necessary ammunition. Is it true, did they do that by arrangement so Russia wouldn't cut their oil off. Who knows?

Of course the Russians say they're blowing it up... Who knows!? One of the "daily report" channels (warinukraine) has moaned a few times about Ukraine's lack of being sensible in various ways. Added to that, Russia has been concentrating on destroying rail and major roads more, so it must be bloody difficult to get big stuff around.

There was criticism pf the Azov Brigade staying too long in the steelworks, because significant numbers did get out, though the Russian held territory. I hope the bulk of those "better" Ukranian troops in the threatened areas don't cling on too long. They might all be dead by the time western arms get there. July FFS, why so long?

Russia many not want too much more territory? They want the Donbas bit, but Mariupol is bigger than Manchester ( as is Mykoliev)- how the hell would they keep control of it if it was full of revolting Ukranians fed with arms from a nearby border?


Edit - mixed them up, Mariupol only 430k
_________

Just seen a news report, Sky I think, where a woman who fled Donbas said that it was the Ukranians doing all the shelling. Hmm.

 

[ajohn]

There has been reluctance to send certain weapons since 2014. TBH I am not sure it's really changed assuming they can be got there. Latest murmur on that is things escalating due to attacks into Russia. Afraid I think Russia is fully at it anyway. In the early days it was Donbas people with Russian help and soldiers when they were needed. These are probably the mercenaries mentioned in the video. There may be some of those too - on both sides.

Mariupol. Lots did get out and at one point the problem with the escape corridor was reported as being down to Ukraine. They aren't always popular when fighting is going on because resupply and regrouping is possible. The UN team leader that went in to get civilians out reported that there were 2 mortars fired when he arrived. Took no notice and carried on. The numbers that came out didn't match the reports on how many were there but some decided to go to Russia. When there was a corridor problem Russia did evacuate some back along the coast and then into unoccupied Ukraine, Some have been shot at trying to get out from various places - even from well inside Kyiv. Who was doing this sort of thing?

Kyiv report on a larger village. Russians using human shields. Reports from one of the shields - they kept us in s school cellar for 2 weeks and wouldn't let us out until the fighting was over. Another "survivor" the Russians were looking for certain people. She thought she was going to be shot but wasn't.

None of this is supporting Russia - just pointing out problems with propaganda - from both sides.

German weapons. The reason they didn't want to get involved with anything like this initially is down to their own history. They had a policy. It took Biden ages to get agreement so provide the next load of cash. Govs always take ages. The latest weapons from Germany. Are they there? If so is no ammo, fact or fiction. Last I heard was that some Ukrainians had left and were being trained to use them.

Biden says he has sent twice as many anti tank missiles as Russia has tanks. He also gave an idea about shell and bullet usage rates. Military targets and possible storage places have been hit but we have no idea what this means. A lot of things shown as hits have been blast damage.

Railways have been hit - how badly?

Both sides are shelling populated areas when the other lot are in them. It's the nature of the fighting. There are or seems to be some trenches from early days. They may be being dug at Zaporizhzhia from footage that has been shown also reports of fighting from the south on the way there. None for a long time now. Russia might at some point try and take all land up to the rivers etc that split the earlier east and west Ukraine. Putin's comment - take back Donbas and after that we will see. He might loose before then anyway.

Latest report I have heard. Kyiv - Russia moving a lot more troops into Donbas. AlJ Russia trying to destroy a supply road that I assume Ukraine are using into the Donbas area. No direct report from a reporter so far. Just mentioned. The road leads to another town. Maybe Russia can attack that one from the south. Maybe it can't.

Fact is there was a fighting line a few months ago that had been there for 8 years. Now there might be a new one that is there for n years. The sanctions are expected to bite eventually.

 

[ajohn]

The BBC has published some war maps

War in Ukraine News - BBC News

War in Ukraine

www.bbc.co.uk

There has been several mentions of not much going on in the Donetsk area all along. There has been a Ukraine trench somewhere there for a long time.

The source of some of it. MOD seems to be involved in one

Institute for the Study of War

New reports confirmed that Ukrainian forces conducted a successful limited counterattack near the Kherson-Mykolaiv oblast border on May 28, forcing Russian forces onto the defensive. This Ukrainian counterattack is likely intended to disrupt Russian

www.understandingwar.org

A BBC interview suggests there may be some withdrawal from Severodonetsk. Just one soldier. Also showed an M777 in action and trench dug for if they have to retreat out of the next town. I assume that is kramatorsk, not sure.

The diplo's are at work on the EU and oil problems.

 

[transam]

The Ukrainians have a problem with obtaining long (Er) range heavy weapons

Certain weapons promised. ? Have not been delivered ??

Some nato countries have concerns
About said weapons system ( missiles) that could be used to strike / attack Russia

And the potential to escalate the conflict ????

 

[Stivino]

The Ukrainians have a problem with obtaining long (Er) range heavy weapons

Certain weapons promised. ? Have not been delivered ??

Some nato countries have concerns
About said weapons system ( missiles) that could be used to strike / attack Russia

And the potential to escalate the conflict ????

It seems Russia are quite happy to throw everything but the kitchen sink at Ukraine but throw their toys out the pram at the thought of Ukraine being able to fight back. They are nothing but bullies.

 

[ajohn]

It seems that the USA wont supply long range missiles. They have been supplied with longer range artillery some mobile from E Europe. There is a link on the BBC page link I posted to what the UK has sent. Some more kit is reported in the video war map link justin posted.

Actually most of the time they appear to be throwing the same things at each other but Russia have some missiles that can hit anywhere in Ukraine. They appear to only be used to hit military targets of late. Ukraine usually say they have hit these now but not what they were.

 

[transam]

The long range missiles that the US won’t supply or are reluctant to supply are considered to be ballistic
Missiles ???
Other missile systems have yet to get to the front

Germans are dragging there heels ?? Over certain weapons they promised ( no surprise )

Russias Wagner mercenaries in Mali have apparently been responsible for the execution of 300
Civilians ????

 

[IT Minion]

The long range missiles that the US won’t supply or are reluctant to supply are considered to be ballistic
Missiles ???
Other missile systems have yet to get to the front

Germans are dragging there heels ?? Over certain weapons they promised ( no surprise )

Russias Wagner mercenaries in Mali have apparently been responsible for the execution of 300
Civilians ????

Ukraine wants MRLS. Essentially a missile system that kills anything not dug in a particular grid square. Typically they have around 80km range, but there are extended range missiles that they can use. The basic ones are longer ranged than nearly any other artillery and often used for counter battery fire.

The longer ranged missiles can reach hundreds of km and Tomahawks can do even further. I think the US is refusing those but might be allowing the shorter ranged MRLS.

 

[Justin Passing]

Ukraine wants MRLS. Essentially a missile system that kills anything not dug in a particular grid square. Typically they have around 80km range, but there are extended range missiles that they can use. The basic ones are longer ranged than nearly any other artillery and often used for counter battery fire.

The longer ranged missiles can reach hundreds of km and Tomahawks can do even further. I think the US is refusing those but might be allowing the shorter ranged MRLS.

Multiple Launch Rocket System more often than MRLS, because they're referring to the Yank One, it seems though they use both.
40 something mile range they can have but not the 140 something mile range missiles. I'd just tell them not to use them for hitting Russian mainland - I mean it just depends where they are when they fire...
Makes surface life untanable in a 1 square kilometer area


Note this bit:
"With each rocket containing 644 M77 grenades, the entire salvo would drop 23,184 grenades in the target area. However, with a two percent dud rate, that would leave approximately 400 undetonated bombs scattered over the area, which could endanger friendly troops and civilians.[5]"


Variants aka GRAD and formerly Smerch.

 

[Justin Passing]

I think I hear on some radio channel that if Russia cuts off gas to Europe, Britain will have to share what it has - much comes from Norway, with the rest of Europe.

Was I dreamng?

 

[ajohn]

Footage of people being evacuated from the east on gurneys by rail was shown yesterday. Earlier some one going back to a town by rail. The way it was cropped, number of people etc I wonder if it was faked. One returning, one greeting? Just gurnys?

Was I dreamng?

Hope so but who knows.

Actually I though both had grad type gear. Something it seems the USA thought wasn't worth having so added similar late compared with others. They can make a mess over a rather large area via one salvo.

C4 interviewed a Brit who went there to fight. Given what happened and the terms he decided to work for an NGO instead. It sounds like they will interview more.I'd be inclined to agree with him if the terms were as he said. He was an ex cadet. An ex military poly who had seen war said not enough training and that things were more sorted out now. This Brit went very early on.