qualification

[Nijinski001]

Guys

With an EAL level 2 Domestic Installers qualification what would be required to work on small commercial units such as shops etc. Do NIC EIC inspect in the saem way. Also does the EAL qualify you to I&T on rented properties?

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moderator

please note 20 which is here

 

[pdcelec]

Competence in electrical installation work is the requirement. Do you consider you are competent to test commercial installations?

 

[Nijinski001]

I was thinking more about competence to install commercial installations.
Does EAL Domestic Installer qualify me to work on these?
If not what do I need?

The question on I&T was for rented dwellings and the associated regs and insurance requirements. With the testing I covered on the course am I officially covered providing I pass the NIC accreditation process?

 

[pdcelec]

I was thinking more about competence to install commercial installations.

But I&T is part of installing to BS7671

Does EAL Domestic Installer qualify me to work on these?

see the bold bit. Do you think it does?

If not what do I need?

Knowledge and competence of commercial installations

The question on I&T was for rented dwellings and the associated regs

BS7671 are the associated regs

With the testing I covered on the course am I officially covered providing I pass the NIC accreditation process?

Could you explain this a bit more as I do not fully understand what you are saying.

 

[Nijinski001]

But I&T is part of installing to BS7671

I understand that but although I am installing to BS7671 I am only qualified as a Domestic Installer. Is rented property regarded as domestic or commercial? Also what are the insurance requirements for these properties with regard to safety certificates?

see the bold bit. Do you think it does?

Now that is pedantic!! There isn't such a thing as a 'Commercial Installer' qualification is there? and C&G is just a more in depth version of the course I have taken.

Knowledge and competence of commercial installations

My point entirely. Are you saying that I don't need any further qualification?

BS7671 are the associated regs

But BS7671 is a standard NOT a qualification

Could you explain this a bit more as I do not fully understand what you are saying.

What I am asking is as per aove but adding that if I am NIC accredited with the qualification I have is it enough to have the competence and experience you mention without further paper qualifications?

 

[pdcelec]

But I&T is part of installing to BS7671

I understand that but although I am installing to BS7671 I am only qualified as a Domestic Installer.

BS7671 covers all electrical installation work in domestic, industrial and commercial premises. I am sure a domestic qualification would not teach you such things as high integrity earthing, two phase welders, three phase machines, burst fire thyristors, inverters etc.

Is rented property regarded as domestic or commercial?

A rented house would be domestic but a rented shop would be commercial.

Also what are the insurance requirements for these properties with regard to safety certificates?

Ask the insurance company what they require.

see the bold bit. Do you think it does?

Now that is pedantic!! There isn't such a thing as a 'Commercial Installer' qualification is there? and C&G is just a more in depth version of the course I have taken.

I believe what you are saying is that you can either become a domestic installer or an electrician. Electricians cover all types of electrical work.

Knowledge and competence of commercial installations

My point entirely. Are you saying that I don't need any further qualification?

That is your choice not mine.

BS7671 are the associated regs

But BS7671 is a standard NOT a qualification.

Where does it say in "BS7671 are the associated regs", that they are a qualification?

Could you explain this a bit more as I do not fully understand what you are saying.

What I am asking is as per aove but adding that if I am NIC accredited with the qualification I have is it enough to have the competence and experience you mention without further paper qualifications?

All you need to satisfy the NIC is a good amount of money to keep giving them for inspections and to buy books, stationary etc from them.

 

[Big_Spark]

The simple answer is NO you are not qualified or legally competent to work on Commercial Installations.

You must have Public Liability to work, and this will ONLY cover you for the ****ty domestic work you have qualified for, working in anything other than domestic will void your insurance and thus working illegally.

Secondly. if you are not qualified to install commercial, then you have no place testing it, as you have zero experience of the installation methodology and many of the systems you may encounter.

Lastly, I would ban these poxy EAL so called quals, no disrespect meant, but as far as I am concerned they are rubbish and a way the industry is tyring to dumb down the process of becoming a spark. IMHO you are not an electrician as you cannot do anything without indepth supervision, except domestic work. It is a joke and a travesty that the industry considers you and others like you qualified, as far as I am concerned your a glorified kitchen fitter...

Sorry, that's the way I see it...I understand you will not agree with me.

 

[Nijinski001]

No offence taken FWL. I know my limitations in terms of experience and knowledge. I am still learning daily on domestic and so commercial is a whole new ball game. I am an intelligent chap and wanting to expand my capabilities and the real question was what do I need qualification wise to satisfy the paper bits. The knowledge can be obtained from various sources including courses and manuals etc and I know nothing beats good experience.

I'm not interested in heavy industrial but I have a number of contacts that can give me light commercial work. As long as it's single phase or 3 phase standard supply then I'm comfortable at the moment.

I know that BS7671 is the oracle from which to work and the guide to that is the 'On Dite Guide' and the 16th Ed BR.

pdcelec frustrates the hell out of me cos he isn't answering my questions, rather just turning the question backwards into a non-answer.

 

[Big_Spark]

Nijinski, glad to hear you have common sense and recognise your limitations.

I would urge you to make use of what you have, then go back to college, night school, and get a full City and Guilds qualification as an electrician, then you can pick and choose what electrical work you do.

I personally try to avoid Domestic work..it's a pain in the but and blindfold territory (I can do it blindfolded I mean!).

If what you have is very small commercial, such as a corner shop or something of this nature, then I would suggest that before you undertake it you check with both your Insurer and the NICEIC as to whether your covered to do this work. If you do it and it ends in tears, you could lose your home and the NICEIC would remove you from their register...it isn't worth the risk.

One of your questions I missed, rented accomadation..this is a grey area for many, however their is a clear legal seperation.

If the property is owned by an individual and rented out, then it is private.

If the property is owned by a company, charity or Housing Association, then it is legally commercial.

However, as Part P will cover both property types, then if your Part P registered then you would legally be allowed to work in both.

 

[Nijinski001]

Thanks FWL that is roughly what I expected as a final answer but just to clarify are you saying that in your opinion without the C&G I can't legally work in anything other than 'domestic'?

One final question then I'm goin to draw a line under this.
With your definition of the rented properties am I legally able to issue safety I&T certificates to private rented properties and will this extend to the house sellers pack that comes in in 2007?

Thanks for your opinions. Very helpful.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

C&G is just a more in depth version of the course I have taken.

No - far from it - not just more in depth but considerably broader in scope as well.

Thanks FWL that is roughly what I expected as a final answer but just to clarify are you saying that in your opinion without the C&G I can't legally work in anything other than 'domestic'?

There is no legal definition of "competence". There are no mandatory qualifications required to demonstrate competence.

One final question then I'm goin to draw a line under this.
With your definition of the rented properties am I legally able to issue safety I&T certificates to private rented properties

Anybody who is "competent" can carry out PIRs, or, indeed, issue full I&T EICs. There is no legal definition of "competence". There are no mandatory qualifications required to demonstrate competence.

and will this extend to the house sellers pack that comes in in 2007?

No idea. I doubt that anybody knows, but I'll bet that NICEIC/NAPIT/ECA/BSI/ELECSA/UTCAA are lobbying hard...