Qualifications to perform PIRs

[Mike4]

Good evening everybody. My first post on DIYnot.com.

Just to outline my background, I'm a heating engineer and private landlord. I'm self-employed, and registered with CORGI and OFTEC. I specialise in central heating and boiler fault diagnosis/repair, and I do occasional LPG work on boats.

Anyway, to get to the point, I'm making initial investigations into obtaining an electrical qualification. I'm not interested (yet) in Part P because I have no intention of installing anything (yet). I'm interested in carrying out PIRs. I currently get a steady stream of enquiries to carry out gas installation inspections from buyers of houses (as a result of arse-covering advice from their surveyors), and being able to offer an electrical PIR at the same time seems to make good business sense.

Further, with the way the wind is blowing in the private accommodation rental market, I'll be needing to have PIRs done regularly on all my rental properties too eventually. Doing them myself (as I do my landlord gas safety inspections) would be a Good Thing too. This is the background to my questions.

I may decide to join a Part P self-cert scheme eventually should I decide to start correcting faults and problems identified during PIRs, but I'm not sure about that yet. Fixing boilers keeps me fully occupied at the moment but with the weight of ridiculous and perverse regulation being heaped on us CORGI bods, I'm thinking to the future and may eventually wind down the gas work in favour of electrical if things continue to deteriorate.

So, where can I find out what qualifications are required to carry out PIRs in domestic dwellings please? I think I know what is required from reading old threads here but I'm looking for the source authority (if there is one). I'm also intrigued to know what mechanisms are in place to stop an unqualified person buying a pad and just starting to do PIRs.

I've been looking at the NICEIC site because one local council I deal with on property rentals have now started demanding PIRs by NICEIC electricians specifically. To enroll with NICEIC it seems I have to carry out installation work on a regular basis, which I don't, and never will, so are there other organisations of equal status with entry requirements geared to testing and inspecting rather than installing?

Thanks for any answers.

Cheers,
Mike4

 

[breezer]

i am not sure, but to do your own pir would mean (in theory) you can do it from home, since you know you will pass.

If you have it done indepentantly at least it looks better.

 

[dingbat]

To carry out PIRs you need a much better than average understanding of electrical installation practice and an encyclopedic knowledge of the regulations. Most time-served sparks are sorely under-qualified to do inspection work.

However, any cowboy can buy a pad of forms and pretend to do the job - there is a potentially lucrative market in not bothering to actually inspect, just issuing 'satisfactory' reports in much the same way as dodgy MOT test stations used to operate.

No, there's no official body, the NICEIC are as close as you'll get and their advice about the prerequisites is pretty much what any spark should tell you.
Out of interest, I did an inspection on a small rental property yesterday. It took me four hours plus a further two just to write up the paperwork. Did it pass? Are you 'aving' a laff?

 

[Jaymack]

Anyone can do a PIR, even joe public; but a problem probably arises when the report is passed to an insurer, they may require the person carrying out the test, to be registered with a body such as NAPIT etc.
The NICEIC only allow approved contractors to do these reports, not simply the domestic installer category. C & G 2391 is the relevant examination and the pass rate is not good, most people who offer training for this exam also insist on C & G 2381 for the regulations.

Jaymack

 

[Mike4]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

How difficult IS C & G 2391 REALLY then? I appreciate there's a high proportion of failure but surely that's due to poor preparation, especially when the pass mark is set well below 100% About the same challenge as the gas ACSs perhaps (which are 100% pass mark but open-book, with numerous ambiguous questions)?

Has anybody here done both?

Cheers,
Mike4

 

[dingbat]

How difficult IS C & G 2391 REALLY then?

That's not the problem. The 2391 is passable by anybody with a brain and a scientific/engineering bent. But remember it is the City & Guilds qualification in Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations... not specifically periodic inspection and testing.

The real issue is the one of experience and many very experienced electricians will happily inspect, test and certify new installations but will still shy away from carrying out periodic inspections on existing installations of unknown provenance. (Especially rental property which is often a minefield of cobbled-together bodges)

 

[Mike4]

How difficult IS C & G 2391 REALLY then?

but will still shy away from carrying out periodic inspections on existing installations of unknown provenance. (Especially rental property which is often a minefield of cobbled-together bodges)

Hmmm... I see, I think.

Testing may not reveal dangerous workmanship, yet the PIRing electrician is expected to certify the installation is 'safe' and carry the can for his certificate. He has to issue the certificate when the installation passes a defined set of tests, yet he has not seen it all and cannot possibly know what bodges are under the floorboards. Is that it?

To be certain, I'd imagine the inspecting electrician really wants/needs to visually inspect every inch of the installation and this is clearly not going to happen. Also, a million minor contraventions will take a million minutes to write down, all for the same money as a perfect installation. Better just to decline the inspection.

This is a bit like landlord gas safety inspections. I hate doing them in properties for which I don't know the provenance, and generally avoid unless I like/trust the landlord. Maybe if I do this, I'll stick to PIRing just my own properties. Full control there then!

What standard of inspection was being proposed for the (possibly defunct) HIP reports, or is that a sore point?

Cheers,
Mike4

 

[dingbat]

There is a standard disclaimer regarding concealed cables, etc and you can agree limitations on your inspection and testing, but the more limitations the less the value of the PIR.

Despite all the fuss made by lots of electricians who assumed PIRs would be mandatory this was never likely to be included in the HIP. The HCR (Home Condition Report, now optional... as in nobody-will-bother) is much the same as a RICS housebuyers report and would recommend specialist advice on all areas that warranted it, but (as happens almost every time with buyers!) most would ignore that good advice.

We need a good spate of highly publicised fires of electrical origin, ideally with a decent body count, to change all that!

 

[supersparky]

to echo what others have said, sparks who do PIR have to be well on the ball and know the regs back to front, no 2 ways about it.
im afraid imho its not something that somone can go on a course and learn, theres too much, plus, you must know when you walk in what % your looking at doing and with what limitations - there are always limitations

most PIR-ing sparks who are worth their salt can walk into a newbuild and could find atleast a handfull of minor deviations and maby some major.

also, i beleve though i may be wrong that you cant do a PIR on your own house in the same way you cant sign off a gas cert on one you own(the gas part may be mis-informed we sub in our gas fitter and the electrical part is probrably out dated or never existed - its a situation which would never arise for us since we have more than one I+T sparks and a sub company)