Question regarding safety?

[Bigtree]

Hi folks, I have recently moved to a house and have begun decorating the downstairs. I have stumbled across something which has raised an eyebrow

In the garage is a brand new flick switch rcd type fuse box, which is great. However when I have removed the light switches in the room I noticed that there isn't an earth wire present?

Should this circuit be earthed or is it protected adequately by the consumer unit?

The light switches are metal finished ones (not plastic). Is this dangerous? (If so, how would it become a direct risk if it is all functioning correctly)?

Many thanks

 

[Spark123]

Can you post some photos?
Really speaking there should be an earth present, where there isn't only double insulated or plastic accessories should be used.

 

[Johnmelad]

The light switches are metal finished ones (not plastic). Is this dangerous?

Yes,,,

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Metallic fittings will require to be earthed, was there an electrical report that came with the house purchase and documentation handed over regarding the electrical system.
Sounds like another case of DIY install, plug-in and play!

 

[Bigtree]

Hi, Thanks for the swift replies.

I've got no photos to hand but I will get some.

How dangerous is it? i.e. is it a danger to someone just by operating the switch on or off? what would have to happen for it to go wrong? How quickly do I need to get things altered?

What I mean is, if I hadn't started decorating, I wouldn't have known anything was wrong and it could have been like that for years to come.

Would the rcd consumer unit not offer any safety net?

No, unfortunately there wasn't any paperwork relating to the electrics so it would suggest a DIY job :-/. Also, unfortunately the last owner is now deceased so I can't even ask about it (no he wasn't electrocuted)!!!

 

[Bigtree]

Oops, sorry......double post!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How dangerous is it? i.e. what would have to happen for it to go wrong?

Something would have to fail or come adrift and make the metal switch plate live.

How quickly do I need to get things altered?

As quick as you can you should replace any metal switches with plastic ones, and not change any bulbs without turning off the power at the CU.

What I mean is, if I hadn't started decorating, I wouldn't have known anything was wrong and it could have been like that for years to come.

Indeed. And I could have spent the last 30-odd years driving around without wearing a seatbelt, and still be here today.

Would the rcd consumer unit not offer any safety net?

Yes, but given the choice between an RCD tripping as soon as a fault occurred and it tripping only when current started to flow through me, I know which I'd go for.

And, of course, you're assuming that whoever didn't do a safe job with the light switches did not also do an unsafe job with wiring up the RCD.

No, unfortunately there wasn't any paperwork relating to the electrics so it would suggest a DIY job :-/. Also, unfortunately the last owner is now deceased so I can't even ask about it (no he wasn't electrocuted)!!!

Replace the switches, and then get an electrician to check everything.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Well worst cause scenario is you get a bit of the Eduard Delacroix treatment.
You cannot be certain for sure that the RCD will or is functioning correctly, I guess it has never been put to the test, you could be or your family members could be the ones doing that.

 

[bernardgreen]

Would the rcd consumer unit not offer any safety net?!

The RCD will ( should ) reduce the duration of an electric shock of 30 mA or more only when the shock involves a current to earth. This will only reduce and not eliminate the risk of a fatal shock.

The metal front plate of a faulty or damp switch can easily become live if not connected to earth. If the plate was earthed the RCD would operate and remove the power from the defective switch.

 

[Bigtree]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

If I was to change all of the light switches to MK white plastic ones, would this then be classed as 'safe'?

I'm presuming that the best fix would be to have it rewired with an accompanying earth?

 

[wingcoax]

First question, what type of cable has been used? Second, if twin and earth has the earth core been cut back? Third, is there enough slack to strip back and re-terminate?

 

[JohnW2]

If I was to change all of the light switches to MK white plastic ones, would this then be classed as 'safe'?

The light switches themselves would then be 'safe', but what are they mounted on? If metal boxes, then those metal boxes (and,indeed,the heads of screws attaching the plastic switches to those boxes) would remain dangerous. If there are any metal light fittings (e.g. standard fluorescent strip lights), they would also be unsafe if there have no earth.

I'm presuming that the best fix would be to have it rewired with an accompanying earth?

Indeed so. What other electrical things are going on in this garage? Are there any sockets and,if so, do they have earths - if not, that could potentially be very dangerous. In fact, as others have pointed out, the absence of earthing of the metal light switches makes one wonder/fear about what may be going on in the remainder of your house's electrical installation - so probably wise to get it all inspected.

By the way, exactly what do you mean by 'no earth at the light switch'. Does the cable literally have no earth wire/conductor at all, has it been 'cut off', or is it there but simply not connected to anything? How is the wiring in the garage arranged - is it, by any chance, in metal conduit (tubing)?

Finally, does the garage have any water or gas pipes in it,or any structural metalwork?

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

Is the lighting wired in regular twin cable, like most houses are?

Or is it singles in conduit (unlikely, but common in council houses) where the metal conduit provides the earth? This arrangement is unlikely, but thought I'd ask now.

 

[Bigtree]

It's a regular twin cable.

I think I'll call an electrician out to be on the safe side and cost up rewiring the lighting circuit.

Typical 3 bed detached house with kitchen, dining room, hall, and lounge downstairs. Landing, 3 bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs. How much can I expect the cost to be around? I know it's a wide open question but just a ball park figure? Just so I'm not getting ripped off.

Thank you all again for your help and advice.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If the cable is t&e it, maybe possibly to still connect the CPC(earth).
It would be helpful if some slack in cable but if not it could be possible to extend by jointing them.

Unfortunately there is never anything typical about a re-wire, each property and property owners bring something extra to the table.
It would be a matter of ease of cable routes, the nature of the fabric of building and the design of the installation, often add ons, such as security, smoke/co alarms, outbuilding, garden features and the circuit demand within the kitchen and utilities are factors to calculate. Then always the time consuming addition of downlights to look forward to.