Quick question on Downlights

[mravant]

Hi Folks, Merry Xmas

Just a quick question, we are having a double side extension (lounge of ground floor and 2 bedrooms above it). We have had all the BR drawings done but do not have them to hand as we are away for the holiday.

Do the new downlights that are to fitted need to be fire rated?
Its just the wife has seen some downlights on clearance in b&q but are not fire rated.

thanks

 

[ELZ4742]

'the long and short'
if there are any occupants living above the new fittings, then yes, you will need fire rated.

 

[bernardgreen]

fitted need to be fire rated

Yes but better to throw those plans in the fire and fit sensible lights.

 

[mravant]

Thanks.
Don't get me wrong i'm sure that the plans have the correct lights on them its just that we are away at the moment and can't refer to them.
We just saw some on clearance in B&Q which seemed a bargain, 10 Chrome downlights for £15.

So the Fire Rating is for the intergrity of the ceiling rather than the fire issue of placing insulation over them?
Do i still need to be worried about them placing insulation over the lights in the void if they are not fire rated?

 

[bernardgreen]

Fire rating means that the people in the room above will have time to escape before the floor of that room collapses as the joists and /or floor boards burn through.

The plaster board protects the timbers of the floor above from any type of fire in the room below. Settee on fire, TV caught alight etc etc

Any hole in that plasterboard for a lamp is a weak spot in that protection. So the lamp must also protect the floor above and not allow any fire to pass through the ceiling to ignite the floor above.

The protection must survive long enough for people asleep in the room to realise there is a fire and wake up ( be woken up ) and be sufficiently aware of how leave the building safely.

 

[mravant]

Thanks that has clarified a lot.
Is it ok to place insulation directly over the non fire rated lights?

 

[ELZ4742]

well, the fire rating part of a downlight is keeping a seal between one room from an another which tends to be a gasket. on most fittings these days a heat resistant can is placed on the rear for the insulation side.

on a side note, you can purchase fire guard loft caps which sit over the back of the fitting.

oh, and theres nothing wrong with downlights if its your preference. some people dont like them on here is all.


this may help in understanding a little.
http://www.jcc-lighting.co.uk/fireguard-plus

 

[Wontdothatagain]

Is it ok to place insulation directly over the non fire rated lights?

No, those things will get damm hot and you putting insulation on the top of them will trap that heat in thus they will get hotter and things will start to melt/catch fire.

 

[mravant]

Ah..So will i have to get fire rated ones if i wanted to put insulation on top of them?

 

[riveralt]

Thanks.
Don't get me wrong i'm sure that the plans have the correct lights on them its just that we are away at the moment and can't refer to them.
We just saw some on clearance in B&Q which seemed a bargain, 10 Chrome downlights for £15.

They may be called downlights but in actual fact they are spot lights - that is they give you pools of light in specific areas around the room - Furthermore, you may only pay £15 for the lights but depending on their wattage expect an increase in your electricity bill. Remember a good centrally located standard 60 watt bulb will give good lighting across the room whereas 10 spotlights @30watts that is 300watts of lighting for poorer lighting.

Get yourself a good quality central light and add wall lights to your plans if you want to light a specific area but don't bother with the spot lights - they're in the bargain BIN for a reason

 

[Wontdothatagain]

Get yourself a good quality central light and add wall lights to your plans if you want to light a specific area but don't bother with the spot lights - they're in the bargain BIN for a reason

And thats probably the best advise you will get

 

[bernardgreen]

Ah..So will i have to get fire rated ones if i wanted to put insulation on top of them?

If you have habitable rooms above and the floors of those rooms depend on timber for support and /or flooring then you really have no option but to use fire rated ones.

Putting insulation over them will make them get hotter and shorten the life of fitting and lamps. With out insultation over them you will have warm spots in the floor above. ( a friend's cat sleeps over on the spots over the downlighters in the room below as those parts of the carpet are noticably warmer )

 

[ELZ4742]

Get yourself a good quality central light and add wall lights to your plans if you want to light a specific area but don't bother with the spot lights - they're in the bargain BIN for a reason

And thats probably the best advise you will get

it would be if the OP asked ''i want your opinion on what lights i should buy'

but it wasnt. personal preferences, horses for courses etc...

 

[Taylortwocities]

Ah..So will i have to get fire rated ones if i wanted to put insulation on top of them?

If you have habitable rooms above and the floors of those rooms depend on timber for support and /or flooring then you really have no option but to use fire rated ones.

That is a complete fallacy.

Fire-rated downlights are required if the ceiling is fire-rated (it isn't if it only a single palsterboard sheet) or if by putting the downlight in will compromise an existing fire compartment - eg between flats in a multi-occupancy dwelling.

As mentioned above, the fire-rated fittings have intumescent material in them which effectively seals the hole if there is in a fire in the room below. The fact that the room above is habitable is not a consideration re the passage of fire (but I would prefer to use them if my child's bedroom were above the kitchen).

Fire rated fitting do not give you carte blanche to throw insulation over the top of them. You need to use proper caps like these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLALC724.html

But at £10 each you might now like to go away and work out how much it will really cost you to fit those energy inefficient torches.

THE NEXT CONSIDERATION will be re building regulations part L1. As this is additional room spaces, 75% of the lights must be low energy as defined in BR Part L. This means they must have a lighting performance better than 40 lumens per circuit watt. You building control will make you rip them out and install lights that conform to BR Part L and also C and E.
I'll bet your cheapo QnB lights don't meet those requirements.!!

 

[bernardgreen]

That is a complete fallacy. Fire-rated downlights are required if the ceiling is fire-rated (it isn't if it only a single palsterboard sheet) or if by putting the downlight in will compromise an existing fire compartment - eg between flats in a multi-occupancy dwelling.

We built our house ourselves. Because the joists of the upper floor are exposed ( the plaster board fits between them ) we had to fit sacrificial timber to the joist to ensure they remained capable of supporting the floor above for a " modified half hour ( 15 minutes ) " during a fire in the room below. If the plaster board had been continuous and below the joists then we would have had the "un-modified half hour "

The tem modified half hour was in the then building regulations.

So while a layer of plaster board may not create a fire resistant barrier it does contribute to the half hour ( modified or not ) protection of the floor above to enable evacution of the house.

When the rooms above are occupied by a separate family in a separate flat or house then the ceiling has to be fire resistant for a longer period.

The bottom line for the OP is how important appearance is compared to the safety of his family as to which type of lamps he fits in the holes in his ceiling.