Rainwater got into boiler down the flue

[Steve__M]

My boiler got flooded at the weekend.

Heavy rain and wind blew water into the flue. The PCB has fried (or boiled) itself to death.

Is there specific guidance on the angle of a flue that goes approx horizontally from the boiler to the outside?

The insurance company are saying they won't pay up because the installation was faulty. Sounds harsh to me given that we can't really have identified this problem and given that we have had the boiler professionally serviced.

The flue comes out of the top of the boiler, then turns and goes horizontally out through the wall. It's about 2-3 feet from the top of the boiler to the end of the flue.

The fault would probably not have happened if the flue sloped downwards as it went outside - in fact it is possibly slightly upwards but it's hard to tell as there is no space for a spirit level.

The boiler is a Micron 60ff (not a condensing boiler).

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[gas4you]

Flues on standard efficiency boilers, such as your Micron, should always have a slight drop from the flue turret to the outside terminal.

This will help and also stop any condensation in the flue draining back to the boiler to rot it.

It will not however, prevent water ingress in storm conditions if the wind is driving the rain into the flue.

 

[fatplumber]

It is unusual for large amounts of water to get into a properly installed flue. Yours is obviously at fault. I have had to replace three flues on microns that were badly installed. They invariably caused problems inside.

 

[Steve__M]

Thanks for those replies.

I found a short enough spirit level. The flue is *almost* horizontal, but is angled *only just* the wrong way (maybe 1mm drop along the visible 200mm of the flue).

Should a service engineer have checked this?

I need to pin this on a tight-fisted insurance company!

 

[Agile]

I dont think you have a chance!

About 50% of the standard boilers that I visit have the flue fitted at the wrong angle.

I always mention it to the owner and tell them that it will be about £... to correct.

Thay have ALL decided not to take any action because it "has not caused any problem yet".

I can also think of three that I have been to that have failed because of water ingress and none of those wanted to have it corrected.

Tony

 

[mattylad]

I have had this happen to me on 3 occasions.

First was a horizontal flue, it caused the fan to short it's windings.
2nd/3rd were for a vertical flue going through the roof (cant angle that one!) yet because of the driving wind & rain it flooded the fan twice.

Thats 3 fans that needed repairing/replacement.

Luckily I worked somewhere that could rewind them so it cost me nowt but thank you's

Have the insurance company been out to check it?
If not & the cost of fixing the flu angle is far less than the cost of repairs to the boiler then you might be able to fix the flu angle then get on at the insurance co again.

 

[bengasman]

Inspecting flue angles is not a part of normal servicing.
A bit odd that the insurance does not pay out, as virtually all claims are due to either faulty installation, lack of maintenance or incorrect use. They do try to come up with excuses not to pay out and if you swallow it, they have saved the money. Keep hassling them, appeal, ask for mediation, contact insurance ombudsman.

 

[Agile]

Inspecting flue angles is not a part of normal servicing.

I always inspect the angle of flues as part of any boiler service or inspection.

I would go as far as to say any engineer who did a service and did not notice if it was incorrect has not done his job properly. Could even receive a claim for damages if that oversight then caused a boiler failure.

Tony

 

[DazzarGaz]

There ain't nothing standard in this game.
Ideal - upward slope
Biasi - level
Worcester/Vaillant - upward slope
I can't remember which are downward slope at this ungodly hour.
The only reliable thing is read the instructions!.

 

[Agile]

Does Paul know that you are still up at this time?

Or is he still on his "just married" moment of ( shortlived bliss ) ?

Have you set a date yet?

Tony

 

[mattylad]

And to the OP, how did the insurance co know that the flu was not at the correct angle?

 

[Steve__M]

Thanks for the comments!

The insurance company sent round a Gasafe man who made a visual assessment (6 inches of flue is visible, but above and below there are wonky pipes and shelves) which he "confirmed" with a spirit level supplied by me. This included using it to measure the angle of the 1 inch bit of pipe protruding from the outside wall!

Later assessment by me showed the spirit level was too big to fit into the gap and was probably a bit too battered.

More careful assessment by me and the assessor (this morning):

At *worst* the spirit level bubble is about 1mm to the left of centre - within the lines. But it is quite hard to say due to difficulty of getting access to view the levels directly.

Is such a slight diversion from the horizontal "faulty" when the instructions say it should be horizontal?

Unfortunately the assessor is clearly going to use his unqualified judgement to back up the qualified but inadequate judgement of the Gasafe man.

I have been trying to be impartial in my judgements but it is probably going to backfire on me.

This will go further!

 

[Agile]

You seem to be distorting the truth!

As far as we are aware your boiler flue should slope down to the outside by about 3° Either because thats what the manufacturer says or if they dont say anything then because thats good practice.

Its not a question if if its horizontal ( unless the manafacturer says that which is unlikely ).

Tony

 

[simond]

Your claim is with the installer, if the flue was inserted incorrectly.

I don't see how it can be your insurer.

 

[Steve__M]

You seem to be distorting the truth!

As far as we are aware your boiler flue should slope down to the outside by about 3° Either because thats what the manufacturer says or if they dont say anything then because thats good practice.

Its not a question if if its horizontal ( unless the manafacturer says that which is unlikely ).

Tony

My earlier measurements were "worst case" estimates. In a eureka moment last night I worked out how to take better measurements (balance the level on two coins to lift it above the obstructions!), and it's closer to horizontal than 1 in 200.

If it should be 3 degrees, then it's faulty.

In my boiler's installation manual all the pictures show the flue to be horizontal. Instructions for installing the flue cover three pages, and on page three near the bottom it says "Make sure that the ductings do not slope down towards the boiler".

As simond says, my claim may be with the installer, and I'd happily put him out of business (see previous threads). The problem is that it is so close to horizontal that the installer will say he followed the instructions close enough.

Personally, I think the insurance company should pay up and then go after the installer themselves.