Ravenheat LS80, broken

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Joe-90 said:
So you expect to pay £84 at the local garage when your rotor arm needs replacing?



Cars don't have rotor arms now Joe, they've had electronc ignition for the last 30 years or so. Try and keep up.

Peter, you have overlooked that Joe's car is 30 years old!
 
M

Mickymoody

Ta, Joe, for getting my back there, your thanks count increases. be sure to repay the favour.

I think this thread is now missing the point a bit, however the call out fee is relevent.

I'm a computer 'engineer', though I don't have a degree from a fancy Uni, in fact I used to work at a college, and we had Uni students visit, for practical exams; not one of them knew one end of a soldering iron from the other. I asked the lecturer, are they all this pig ignorant, who was a friend of mine, and he stated, these are better than the usual.

I have no degree, but I do have formal exams within the industry, specific to the industry, run by the companies that invent and build the product, so presumably I'm allowed to be called an 'engineer', however I do not charge £84 if some rings me up to fix a dead PC, to find that the power lead has fallen out.

What my bone is, people 'calling' themselves boiler experts/repairers, having NO IDEA what they are doing, fitting parts that are incorrect, or incorrectly fitting parts and breaking them on installation, but still charge a premium, for their own incompetence. Experience has shown ME personally, if people bother to read, that 3 out of 4 experienced gas repair technicians (NOT engineers), are either incompetent, or just down right crooks. I also stated above, if people bother to read, that I'm not slagging off the industry, as all sectors have a bad apple. That tars the reputation of the industry, just in my experience 3 engineers were completely incompetent. And the 4th stuttered at one stage, after I explained to him that it would not work with the inner case off, then 10 minutes pondering, and it cutting out, he says hmm..maybe the inner case needs fitting. I ask how it knows the case is off, he immediately says something about an air pressure sensor. So good luck to the chap, he had been sweating for over 3 hours...but his indecisiveness, added to the bill, even though I told him what to do.

The response from the people not associated with the repair of boilers, has been such as mine, how charge so much, when there are parallel services that charge far less...And the response of the gas people that do not answer, are very defensive, and initially asked ME to work out their business plan!

Nobody, in the industry has stepped up to the plate, and said, OK sometimes we get it wrong, or we hear about these people and go round fixing their faults, that they cause.

You all say - we are in it for the money, we have had no better training than a painter, as 3/4 times it's wrong. A painter doesn't paint your wall, then leave you with a device that is in a dangerous condition, leaks water onto electrics. I don't take my car into the garage, theres a knocking noise, that's £84 quids mate? Why? Diagnosis. You got a stone stuck in your tread. £84 quids mate? Yeah, that's the rule. I could have done that myself...Sorry..you called us up mate. tough..

So it seems correct, that 3 out of 4 boiler engineers are crooks and cheats. Either unable, or incapable of fixing anything, with their University credentials.

High five Joe 90 - even though you have been a bain of my life! :D

So anyone ringing up for a fix of their CH, will be Ch eated. 3 out of 4 times, and the response on here, is to defend prices. Ask me to structure their own price plans, which they seem incapable of doing themselves, and slag people off that ask the boiler people to justify their actions, which at the same time, have their own hidden forum, where they gossip within themselves, asking how they can rip us off more, as to their unjustified prices, in relation to other services.
 
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Moody - you should read all you posts again because you were accusing me of all sorts. You even were dumb enough to claim that everyone pays the same bills.

The chances of you getting any free advise from a professional here was greatly reduced.



I notice that knobby 90 hasn't offered you any tangible advise... don't forget to thank him for that too.
 
M

Mickymoody

Moody - you should read all you posts again because you were accusing me of all sorts. You even were dumb enough to claim that everyone pays the same bills.

The chances of you getting any free advise from a professional here was greatly reduced.



I notice that knobby 90 hasn't offered you any tangible advise... don't forget to thank him for that too.

I have no idea about your post, that looks like a 5 year old wrote? I haven't accused you of anything, and I have no idea what you mean regarding paying the same bills. I have a brain, you clearly don't.

As I give advice to people, then there is a high chance that other people that do respect me, you not being one of them, would offer advice, as has happened for the last few years, of me being here, and you not.

I don't understand Knobby 90? I presume that is your attempt at humour? To slag off Joe 90? I think you need to grow up, and face where you sit in society, never mind forum hierarcy?

When you learn how to put words together, in a tangiable sentance, that is coherent, then you write to me, yes?

Mickyme..who is banned...is more coherent than your inane and random post. ADMIN WHY IS SHE BANNED? When this idiot isn't?
 
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Much that I would hate spending the last of my evening posting your own quotations... Thankfully this screen is just one of several I have, and my little retro TV revival has settled on CHiPs for the evening and my first calls tomorrow are local.

So, to begin:

Everyone in the world has those charges
Really? Everyone?

Can you explain to me why the people within your organisation, are unable to repair simple faults

You don't even know the name of my organisation.

you are certainly onto an earner, even when you break parts, and leave equipment in a dangerous state of repair. Why would you do that? And then try to justify yourself? As you clearly have,

Since when have I ever worked for you?

the first boiler was a le Blank boiler

No it wasn't it was an "e.l.m. leblanc".

I didn't stop some bloke in the street to say fix this, these are professional people, that are advertised to all in the paper, and Yellow Pages. I didn't choose one because he said he was cheap. I chose it because others say, sorry, I don't work on that boiler, sorry.

Coherent? No an angry rant. Justified? Well, maybe. If you weren't dumb enough to take a hint from the other people you phoned. Why didn't you call the installer out of interest?

And there seems to no way to stop these people doing the same to other people?

You don't start a sentence with 'and'. As for the structure of the sentence? Coherent is not an adjective I would use.


By the way did you ever call the police? No?... Stop b1tching then.


Oh, and I am still waiting for Jo to answer my question from page 2 of this particular alias' meanderings.

On the assumption that you are a different person; I am still waiting for an answer to my questions that I posed to you on page 2 as well.

You see? That is the problem of posting personal attacks as part of a general rant.
 
M

Mickymoody

Much that I would hate spending the last of my evening posting your own quotations... Thankfully this screen is just one of several I have, and my little retro TV revival has settled on CHiPs for the evening and my first calls tomorrow are local.

So, to begin:

Everyone in the world has those charges
Really? Everyone?

Can you explain to me why the people within your organisation, are unable to repair simple faults

You don't even know the name of my organisation.

you are certainly onto an earner, even when you break parts, and leave equipment in a dangerous state of repair. Why would you do that? And then try to justify yourself? As you clearly have,

Since when have I ever worked for you?

the first boiler was a le Blank boiler

No it wasn't it was an "e.l.m. leblanc".

I didn't stop some bloke in the street to say fix this, these are professional people, that are advertised to all in the paper, and Yellow Pages. I didn't choose one because he said he was cheap. I chose it because others say, sorry, I don't work on that boiler, sorry.

Coherent? No an angry rant. Justified? Well, maybe. If you weren't dumb enough to take a hint from the other people you phoned. Why didn't you call the installer out of interest?

And there seems to no way to stop these people doing the same to other people?

You don't start a sentence with 'and'. As for the structure of the sentence? Coherent is not an adjective I would use.


By the way did you ever call the police? No?... Stop b1tching then.


Oh, and I am still waiting for Jo to answer my question from page 2 of this particular alias' meanderings.

On the assumption that you are a different person; I am still waiting for an answer to my questions that I posed to you on page 2 as well.

You see? That is the problem of posting personal attacks as part of a general rant.

I can only conclude from that rant, that you are either mentally deranged, or locked up in a padded cell? I am completely unable to understand, anything what you post? WHAT are you going on about?

Even for me.....why ban my partner MickyMe, when this nonsense is posted?
 
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Micky, you are right that few of the people that you call will be that competent at dealing with more complicated faults. Many just want to get an installation job.

Then your boiler is not designed for easy fault diagnosis.

The "air pressure switch" is actually an analogue pressure sensor! That will throw 98% of the "experienced boiler engineers" that you call.

To make things worse its output is from about 0.8v to 4v. But the manufacturers dont give any info on what range ov voltages are required by the PCB. At least one of their help line advisors thinks its a switch.

Nor do they provide any air pressure test points on the boiler so you cannot measure the pressure presented to the pressure sensor! I have devised a work around for that but they dont know about it.

As I charge a fixed price diagnostic charge then if I took a long time the client still only pays the same fee.

Tony
 
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Thank goodness we're back to the OP's boiler!

The "air pressure switch" is actually an analogue pressure sensor! That will throw 98% of the "experienced boiler engineers" that you call.

To make things worse its output is from about 0.8v to 4v.
Interesting, Tony. Just out of sheer curiosity, what type of transducer is it?

Thick film semiconductor thing like this? http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/002e/0900766b8002e11f.pdf

Keep up the good work,

C.
 
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Simple answer is that I dont know. They are too expensive for me to open to look inside.

They look like a diaphragm operated switch. I dont think its a semiconductor nor a piezo type either.

It might just be a diaphragm with a magnet and a Hall effect sensor. But the hysteresis is quite low so perhaps not.

Tony
 
M

Mickymoody

Agile - the diagnosis process is illustated in the consumer manual; therefore one would suspect, that a diagnosis for a professional engineer is straightforward. Which it was. However the engineer, broke the part on installation.

So the consumer can clearly see what is wrong, if they follow a veng diagram...Is this part working, Yes/No, if that isn't working is this Yes/No? How can an engineer get it so wrong?

That is in the consumer manual, not the engineers manual...so if I know what's wrong, how can a professional get it soooo wrong? And break it more? It's beyond incompetence.

For people that don't know the veng system, it's a series of diagrams, with yes or no answers. Are the lights on, yes or no, did you switch them on, yes or no, if you switched them on, and they dont turn on, can you check the fusebox, has a fuse blown yes no? If yes source the short...if not you have a powercut....

This is intemediary basic stuff, that 'engineers' are getting wrong....big time.

So I can read from my user manual what is wrong....but the engineer is unable to understand, and breaks it? How? Why? Are most engineer totally incompetent, due to my experience 3 out of 4 are. And the one posting on here, that is unable to spell, completely. Who would employ an illiterate person to repair a boiler, and if they did it wrong, you would die?
 
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For people that don't know the veng system, it's a series of diagrams, with yes or no answers. Are the lights on, yes or no, did you switch them on, yes or no, if you switched them on, and they dont turn on, can you check the fusebox, has a fuse blown yes no? If yes source the short...if not you have a powercut....?

That's called a flowchart, not 'the veng system'.
 

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