RCD PROTECTION FOR NEW OUTDOOR SOCKET - HELP/ADVICE PLEASE

[1FastLearner]

Afternoon Gentlemen, a weatherproof socket is needed in the Garden.



Here is the plan....

My Consumer Unit has RCD, but I also want additional protection. I considered the MasterSeal PASSIVE RCD till I realised this won't protect the cable running through the wall between the nearest Kitchen Socket and the outdoor socket. I know my CU will protect the cable, but to be honest, if im gonna have additional RCD at all, I'd want it from the point where the Electricity leaves the house so it protects "everything", rather than just have protection from the outdoor socket onwards only.

So,

for the same money, I've decided to get a standard Masterseal 2 gang Socket and use a RCD FCU instead, which I'll have installed INSIDE the house near the Kitchen Socket. This will protect the cable leaving my house, the outdoor socket & anything I plug into it, like Garden Lights, etc.

But here is the thing....

I want to be able to ISOLATE the power in the Garden. Thats essential, but I can't simply use a RCD PLUG because, apparently, its "too ugly to have sitting on top of the new kitchen counter"

So,

looks like I'll be paying for more electrical work. I intend on having a Switched FCU and a RCD FCU, as this seems to be the only way I can isolate power to the garden and still have RCD protection... and why has nobody made a SWITCHED RCD FCU yet ?


Anyway.

Thats the situation, does it make sense so far ?

Ok, finally, here is my Question....

AM I RIGHT IN THINKING THIS WOULD BE BEST WIRED AS A SPUR OFF THE MAIN CIRCUIT ?

Meaning,

1) add a single 2.5mm cable to the existing Kitchen Socket (which is on a 2.5mm circuit with no existing spur)

2) connect this 2.5mm cable to the FCU

3) connect the FCU to the RCD FCU using a second 2.5mm cable

4) connect the RCD FCU to the Outdoor Socket using a third 2.5mm cable and terminate there.


Just so I have an idea, is that how it will be wired ?








DISCLAIMER

I have NO intention of doing this work myself. See previous posts for details. I've already had an electrician in a few weeks ago to fit a new cooker, a new cooker switch, and a new FCU for my cooker hood. If I wasn't confortable doing that, im not not going to attempt this. I simply wanna understand exactly WHAT im being charged for. The Electricain who did that job wasn't first choice. The first bloke I called in tried to surprise me with a £75 quote - but after learning the basics on here of how simple that job was, I politely told him to F* OFF and got in another Certified Electrician who did it for half that amount, in one hour and a half (inc a complementary tea and biscuit break, lol, on the house, of course)

So - after allaying fears that I wouldn't be doing the job myself, and after swearing allegence to the Governments Arbitary Regulation Regime, I recieved the information I was looking for from this site. It would be nice if the same Blokes who answered my previous questions answered this one as well. Oh, and feel free to enquire about the FCU/Cooker Switch - everything is working great. Once I get the Garden Socket done I can install the new Kitchen Cabinet, attach the new sink and get back to living like a normal human being ! My Kitchen has been a construction/bomb site for WEEKS and the missus has been on my flippin case....



Cheers Fellas. Much Obliged.

 

[RF Lighting]

All RCD FCUs are switched.

There is no need for the extra RCDs. It's just a waste of money.

An FCU spurred off the ring to a standard masterseal socket will be just fine.

Do you wear two seatbelts when you travel in a car?

 

[SparkyNinja]

Just ask the electrician to spur off the existing circuit via a fcu to your outside socket.

No additional RCD protection is necessary (assuming the existing is 30mA).

The correct paperwork on completion is .

 

[1FastLearner]

lol, no I don't wear two seat belts...
but if I heard it reduced deaths.... I digress.



It would be interesting to hear more opinions on RCD OUTDOOR SOCKETS, because, if there was no need for them, why would they sell them ?

I DO understand your point though. My mains is RCD protected at the CU so techically I don't need "further protection" elsewhere on the circuit, right ?

but like I said,
I'd like to hear more opinions on that. They are very expensive.




As for all RCD FCU's being switched,
which ones are you talking about because I couldn't find ANY.

The only RCD FCU's I've seen all have a TEST and a RESET button, but no dedicated ON or OFF switch.

Are you suggesting I TEST the RCD everytime I want to turn off power to the Garden ? and then RESET it when I want to turn power back on ?

I'll be honest, I considered that once I couldn't find an RCD FCU with a dedicated switch, but SURELY that can't be best practice to use the Test button to turn off the "Garden Light"

You wouldn't use your Consumer Unit to turn off your TV would you ?

lol, thanks for thte reply.

 

[RF Lighting]

They sell RCD sockets for when you are connecting to a circuit which doesn't already have RCD protection.

Yep, you use the test button to turn the FCU off.

It also proves the internals are working properly too.

You could turn the TV off at the CU if you wanted, but that would be a little impractical if you wanted the fridge to stay on for example

 

[SparkyNinja]

why would they sell them?

Well if you didn't have RCD protection on the circuit, and the method of the newer installation didn't require the installation of an RCD, then only the socket would need an RCD on it.

 

[1FastLearner]

Thanks RF Lighting/Widdler....

Im noticing a pattern emerging here... so, having RCD on the socket or inside the house by the Kitchen Socket, wouldn't bring me any added protection because I already have RCD on the mains via the CU ? (I guess the only added protection would be if the Consumer Unit fails, but I can regulary test that, so....)

Interesting - those £60 odd quid Masterseals with RCD are a waste of money if you already have RCD at the CU ? Wow.

SEE ? THIS IS THE REASON I ASK SO MANY QUESTIONS ON HERE, LOL.

Sounds like the job might of got a lil less expensive.

So all I need done is a Switched FCU on a spur off the Kitchen Socket running directly to the Masterseal 2 Gang (NON RCD)



Thanks for the background info fellas, you've given me something to think about.

 

[1FastLearner]

Widdler -

I figured that much , cheers.




RF Lighting -

Apologies if im asking the obvious. I know the TEST button turns off the RCD, and the RESET turns it back on. I get that. But lets say I wanted to turn the power to the Garden socket on and off several times a day for the forseeable future ? You know ? like a light switch ?

on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off for months and years and years EVERYDAY, until it naturally needs replacing over time.

that would be ok ? using the seperate TEST and REST buttons on a RCD like a single dedicated switch on a FCU wouldn't shortern its "life span" or anything ? Is that so ?

the answer might be obvious, but to me using the TEST and RESET buttons on a daily basis just seems unwise. But thats just my assumption, and as you can tell, im no expert


thanks again.

 

[SparkyNinja]

It should last a long time. I switch my garden lights on & off via this method and have done so for years now.

Just consider yourself as being very safe 'testing' your RCD's operation so many times, not that you're going to though as you don't need one.
I have no RCD's in my fuseboard, so I do

 

[1FastLearner]

Widdler -

funnily enough, thats exactly what we would be using this new 2 gang socket for in the garden.

one socket would be kept spare for when we needed it, and the other would always have Garden Lights attached (w/ a plug) so we could turn them on and off from the Kitchen before walking out into the garden.

most of the time the switch would be OFF.

So, as long as the electrician agrees, I think I'll go with a switched FCU and rely on my CU RCD and the Masterseal Socket to keep everything safe.

last question, I think

Am I right in assuming that should the Outdoor Socket develop a fault and come into contact with water, or should the Garden Lighting develop a fault, or should any of the cables in the garden, despite being in conduit, become damaged and develop a fault and come into contact with anything lethal...

...basically, should any of the above happen and it all goes t*ts up, I am correct in assuming that the RCD at the CU will kick in ? Right ?

Cheers !

 

[SparkyNinja]

That's correct.

The RCD will detect leakage in the current flowing through the circuit. As soon as anything happens causing such leakage, The RCD will isolate the supply.

When the electrician installs the outside socket, make sure the existing RCD is tested effectivley. A plug-in tester with 3 lights at the newly installed socket isn't sufficient.

 

[1FastLearner]

Widdler -

thanks for the advice.

what equipment should the Spark have with him ? can you be any more specific with the type of tester he should be using ?

I've never tested a socket before, so I wouldn't know what to expect. He could use the inadequate type of tester your referring to and I'd be none the wiser. But at least if I have an idea I can look into it and make sure he's doing a thorough job with the RIGHT equipement. I am paying after all


Cheers Mate


[/i]

 

[SparkyNinja]

If when the job's done the electrician just uses one of these:

and says 'job done, see three green lights'

then it's just to show that the connections or more importantly, the POLARITY is ok. That doesn't test the RCD protecting the circuit.



Something like these:

is needed to carry out an RCD test.

Other tests should be carried out also and a certificate issued with the results taken down.

 

[1FastLearner]

Widdler, thanks again, along with RF Lighting you've just saved me quite a bit of money with your advice - about the same amount I expected to pay the electrician in fact I'll be interested to see if the Spark earns himself tea and biscuits by taking the time to explain I already have RCD protection at the Consumer Unit so I don't need anything more than a £5 switched FCU, or perhaps he'll nod agreeingly to the thought of factoring a £60 Masterseal RCD socket to the bill I guess only time will tell....

...and yes, I'll be sure to check what tests he'll perform before he starts anything. If he's only equipped with a socket tester I won't be too impressed, to put it politely !

Cheers Mate !

 

[RF Lighting]

You missed my lovely tester off the list

Don't forget to press

^^^