RCD Tripping emegency Electrician cannot fix

[ETAF]

Hi
I'm a few hours away from my partners son who is at his house looking after some medical things for him..

She put the washing machine on and the RCD Tripped - it only protects the 1 30A supply for 1 ring main in the house
I have a photo of the CU

Turned the washing off
it then worked for for a while - then tripped

She cannot get the washing unplugged -because of how the kitchen cupboards are set out - dont understand why ....... but.....
it does have a Fused switch above it - which i hoped was DP and told her to switch off

then last night and this morning it has been tripping after maybe 30mins or immediately

They are all stressed out
yesterday , she thought it was fixed after i suggested
Taking everything out of the sockets over the entire house
Switch any switches off
check any outside lights for water

anyway today she called out a 24/7 emergency electrician on a Sunday at silly money
he did not know what was wrong ............
I did talk to him and was not that impressed and he was not really interested in doing anything more ..... having collected £160 ......

He did test the circuit and said the only issue was the Neutral was around 3ohms the live and earth was fine
and he suspects there is a loose join in one of the sockets .......
and as its sunday and hes not going to go around and check anything more

SO they are left with no electric or very intermittent electric - resigned to probably thro2ing all the Fridge/freezer food out

My question (at last) is , would a poor connection on the neutral 3ohms - cause a lot of intermittent RCD trips .........

I have suggested they get another electrician out tomorrow - to check it out properly and currently talking to people to get recommendations , the last electrician they had before xmas quoted £250 to change some wall lights , which took him 20mins !!!!!!!! and he still insisted on the £250 - so she is very reluctant to call him again .....

I suspect it maybe a faulty item ..... like the washing machine, I did ask the electrician if he would just pull the switch and check its DP - but he would not , as he said although the condition of the wiring is fine , he wont be able to tell if its a DP switch or not .... I suggested he simply test OUT/Load for N with a meter , but got a Phone equivalent of a shug

anyway - Everyone is very very stressed , partner is recovery from flu and her son is in/out hospital - so all a bit stressfuil and she dees not want me to go to site at all ..........

Any thoughts

 

[terryplumb]

Short of disconnecting the washing machine ,to at least rule that out ,you need an electrician to visit .

 

[JohnW2]

My question (at last) is , would a poor connection on the neutral 3ohms - cause a lot of intermittent RCD trips .........

As I imagine you will probably suspect, the short answer is 'no', one wouldn't expect a 'poor connection' to result in RCD trips -although, having said that, RCD trips sometimes happen when (electrical) logic says that they shouldn't!

I have suggested they get another electrician out tomorrow ...

That sounds sensible.

I suspect it maybe a faulty item ..... like the washing machine ....

A 'faulty item' is certainly by far the most likely explanation. Are there any outside lights or sockets? If so, water getting into them can cause such RCD trips. If they are controlled by DP switches (or FCUs), then you could isolate them 'to eliminate things'. The only other possible causes are either a fault in the actual wring or a faulty RCD - both of which are very unlikley to be the cause.

,anyway - Everyone is very very stressed , partner is recovery from flu and her son is in/out hospital - so all a bit stressfuil and she dees not want me to go to site at all ..........

I'm sorry to hear all that - and hope that a competent electrician is able to resolve the problem.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

Your description suggests to me that it is the heating element in the washer.

This turns on some time after the programme has started, filled up with water and churned for a bit, which explains the delay.

Heating elements commonly break down with age, and in a washer water gets jnto the cracked sheath.

If this is the case, try a cold wash cycle or a rinse and spin and call an appliance mender.

Less commonly, water leaks and even condensation inside a washer can cause trips.

 

[ETAF]

Thanks for all the replies & time - comments below - photo added


@terryplumb

you need an electrician to visit .

Thanks - we have had an electrician visit - sorry if that was not clear

@JohnW2

As I imagine you will probably suspect, the short answer is 'no', one wouldn't expect a 'poor connection' to result in RCD trips -although, having said that, RCD trips sometimes happen when (electrical) logic says that they shouldn't!

Thanks , that was what i thought and di dquestion him on phone as to why that would be a problem ,. as i said lots of pauses and phone shrugs

Are there any outside lights or sockets? If so, water getting into them can cause such RCD trips.

I got them to check all that on Saturday , I have advise friends and solved issues before on that issue - so no

The only other possible causes are either a fault in the actual wring or a faulty RCD - both of which are very unlikley to be the cause.

Thats good to know - I had expected the electrician to perhpas test the RCD - not sure how difficult that is -
thanks for that
I was hoping my son-in-law who is competent with electrics , we did some work together when an electrician was on site , doing other work and over saw the design , she tested the installation and signed off a garage, as well as the work she did
Would be able to go and at least remove the washing machine switch and confirm if DP - and take the leads out to the 'hopefully" socket below

@JohnD

Your description suggests to me that it is the heating element in the washer.

Thats sort of where i was Saturday - BUT they cannot get it out because a side cupboard needs to be rewmove
but it is controlled by a fused switch above the worktop - Which i had hoped was DP
they are to stressed today , to get S-i-l out - only 15mins away - so may have to wait till tomorrow

But good to know the faulty 3ohm neutral is not a 100% definite and unlikely cause

here is a photo - washing machine switch - which i sort of hoped was DP and switched off - would isolate -

I guess really tomorrow - i go back to removing everything out of all the sockets including the Washing machine ...... shame i could not get them to get SIL out
as hopefully pulling that out the wall and disconnecting the load L&N should do the trick - until a replacement

dont know why - i was happy to drive up this afternoon and take a torch to do that - but they insisted i didnt and will sort it out

 

[terryplumb]

I know you had an electrician visit , who did virtually nothing to get your problem resolved. Unless you think you can resolve the issue yourselves,you are going to need an electrician.
As I understood your original post ,the RCD trips randomly without the washing machine being used ,and although it's isolated at the fused connection unit ,that may not be double pole. Disconnecting it from the FCU will rule out the appliance.
You also told us that every other item had been unplugged/ disconnected from the circuit ,does that include fixed items like the boiler/ central heating system/ kitchen extractor, etc ?

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks , that was what i thought and di dquestion him on phone as to why that would be a problem ,. as i said lots of pauses and phone shrugs

Quite. You clearly need a different (better) electrician.

I got them to check all that on Saturday , I have advise friends and solved issues before on that issue - so no

Fair enough.

Thats good to know - I had expected the electrician to perhpas test the RCD - not sure how difficult that is -

Very simple, provided the electrician has the appropriate test gear (which he/she really should have). Although pretty rare, RCD becoming 'trigger happy' is not unknown. Pressing the test button will merely prove that the RCD is capable of tripping - but you already know that it can

Would be able to go and at least remove the washing machine switch and confirm if DP - and take the leads out to the 'hopefully" socket below ....
here is a photo - washing machine switch - which i sort of hoped was DP and switched off - would isolate -

I'm not sure whether they ever existed, but I haven't seen an FCU which did not have a DP switch for decades. Hence, if you still get trips when that is switched off, I think it exteremely unlikley that vthe vWM is to blame.

But good to know the faulty 3ohm neutral is not a 100% definite and unlikely cause

I don't know about others, but I'm not really sure what that "3 ohms" relates to, and certainly can't see how it could be related to RCD trips.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

@ETAF the fused switch in your photo is double pole. But if is switched ON!

Tell them go switch it off and see if the RCD stays on. If it does, it’s a machine repair person, not an electrician that they need.

 

[JohnW2]

.... ,and although it's isolated at the fused connection unit ,that may not be double pole.

A theoretical possibility, I suppose but, as I've just written ...

I'm not sure whether they ever existed, but I haven't seen an FCU which did not have a DP switch for decades. Hence, if you still get trips when that is switched off, I think it extremely unlikely that the WM is to blame.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ETAF]

edit

 

[chivers67]

" He did test the circuit and said the only issue was the Neutral was around 3ohms the live and earth was fine

and he suspects there is a loose join in one of the sockets .......and as its sunday and hes not going to go around and check anything more "

Did he mean the end to end test on the Neutrals?

 

[ETAF]

Did he mean the end to end test on the Neutrals?

Yes, measured at the CU as far as i could tell over the phone
The 3 Ohms is the ring circuit resistance measured at the CU for the neutral - the Live and Earth are under <1ohm was the only real comment from the "electrician"

Thanks everyone

Sorry Terryplumb, your right , we do need an electrician out - not whatever it was they got , i thought you may not have seen the comment in my long post - sorry

I thought most fused switches were DP to - but as i say on the phone he seems to isnsist may not and when i suggested unscrew and simply test i got the pause again

the fused switch in your photo is double pole. But if is switched ON!

I will go back tonight and and ask why is that switch still ON , but it maybe photo before i asked them to turn off .. They did tell me it was off.... but that maybe during the discussion and phot

Ok again thanks all for the help

 

[Risteard]

Was any insulation testing or Earth leakage testing carried out?

 

[CBW]

Ask them if they have done anything recently, eg nail/secure a floorboard down, hung a picture/mirror et al. The reason I ask, I had it once where boiler was being blamed for electrics tripping, but turned out to be the customer had hung a mirror which had nicked the cable.

 

[ETAF]

will do
the switch was off , from yesterday - that was an early picture , trying to identify it

they had a shower fitted a few weeks ago - BUT that is on a separate CU unit at the meter box and also switched OFF
CU under the stairs - half way along house - Meter outside front wall in box - Shower CU added there and run to downstairs cloak room also at front of house pretty much the same wall as meter box - so it must have been easier

Was any insulation testing or Earth leakage testing carried out?

I tried to get those answers , but i just go the resistance and sort of decided he didnt know what he was doing , and when he said , its a sunday and a very expensive hourly rate ... so not much else i can do

she will have to hope to get someone in tomorrow - the company that i dealt with years ago re garage and house - was great but they nolonger cover that area

the washing machine has tripped before apparently - but if on the DP switch off should be out the loop now