Re rendering building regulations

[GMA14]

Work started recently on our house to have it completely re-rendered. Work has stopped as the council informed us that we have to insulate all the outside walls - this seems to be a little known regulation.

Part of of the house has cavitity walls - these will be done, but most of the house has solid walls and will need insulation panels - a much greater cost. Also a building appliction form has to be filled and money paid to the council before proceeding.

Anyone else come across this?[/img]

 

[noseall]

this "little known regulation", does it happen to be the recent 25% rule?

surely this can not apply to a dwellings' outer coating

 

[jbonding]

ive never heard of this one fair enough if all the other houses are brick and you wanted to render yours planning may be needed coz your changing the look of the whole row but if its like for like i cant see it being right. I am rendering a gable at the moment on an extension and the building inspector is involved but your issue hasnt been raised. Is it possible to batton, board and insulate from inside?

 

[Richard C]

this "little known regulation", does it happen to be the recent 25% rule?

surely this can not apply to a dwellings' outer coating

This little gem comes under Part L1B - Conservation of Fuel & Power in Existing Dwellings; it came into effect in 2006 & I’ve warned others on here about it a few times when theve posted about gutting & stripping all the plaster back. I don’t think it matters weather it's the outer rendering or inner plastering if you remove more than 24% of what constitutes a thermal layer from an outside wall, you could get stuffed with having to upgrade the external wall insulation on the whole property. You’re probably only likely to get caught out if you having BI’s visiting to inspect other notifyable work though but it’s one to be wary of!

 

[Richard C]

ive never heard of this one fair enough if all the other houses are brick and you wanted to render yours planning may be needed coz your changing the look of the whole row but if its like for like i cant see it being right. I am rendering a gable at the moment on an extension and the building inspector is involved but your issue hasnt been raised. Is it possible to batton, board and insulate from inside?

It's got nothing to do with the how it looks; it's the thermal value of the wall insulation LABC are interested in. Your gable wouldn’t be affected unless you’ve removed old rendering or stripped back the plaster internally & a new extension should already conform due to width of cavity & insulation etc. or other insulation method on solid walls. You can insulate behind battened internal studding &, as far as I’m aware, this would be acceptable but you would need to check. If you can prove to LABC that the walls already meet the minimum thermal requirement (personally I’ve no idea what it is), that should be good enough.

 

[^woody^]

What do you mean that work has stopped due to the council - is this a part of the council or the building control section?

What is the context of the work - are you just re-rendering or are you doing some other work which would normally come under building regulations?

First you could argue that the work is not a "material alteration" as defined in part L1b.

Then you could argue that there are provisions within part L1b where it is not technically feasible, or the work will have detrimental impact to the street scene, or the cost is prohibitive both to you and in terms of payback.

Or just say that you will insulate internally in due course - complete any existing work which may be in progress, don't apply for the render and just leave it as "work in progress"

 

[GMA14]

We stopped work as the council (building control) insisted that we had to insulate, apparantly if this does not happen they have the power to do the work themselves and then charge us back for their costs. Any re-rendering or plastering work of more than 25% of the house comes under these building regulations. There is no other work taking place.

Part of the house has just had the cavity walls insulated today but we have to look at pricing up insulation boards and new window cills on the solid walls for the rest of the house. There does not seem to be any grants available for this as there is for the cavity wall insulation.

We have argued that the work would be detrimental to the house next door as panels would stick out quite substantially, being semi detached, and we have also argued that the cost could be a problem but have been told that this is irrelevant.

We are also required to pay the council at least £250 on top of everything else to comply with this. The old rendering was not in a good state but it seems as though we would have been better off leaving it. It appears that other councils may have been more lenient. It's not going well.......

 

[Richard C]

Commiserations my friend, what a situation to get into! : As I said, I’ve known about this for some time now but you have the dubious privilege of being the first person I know of to get caught out! I did hear rumours earlier this year that LABC’s were going to start actively enforcing Part L so it seems it may be true. Not quiet sure why they are insisting you put insulation panels on the outside (unless I’ve misunderstood), what’s important is the U value of the whole wall & this can be increased by adding insulation on the inside. Can I ask why the LABC want £250 from you? There is a sliding scale of inspection charges based on the value of the work being done & that seems rather steep!

I hope other renovators & spreads heed the warning!

 

[^woody^]

The council are not giving you correct information about their powers and what they can/will do. They are effectively bullying you, and it it is not correct that they can make you stop this work and they do it themselves and charge you for it - I don't know if that is what they actually told you or just how you have translated it here, but if they did tell you this then its a serious error on their part, and something to complain about and take it the the LA Ombudsman if need be

Depending on how you want to go with this you can just do what they want you to do, or you can get get some proper advice, call their bluff and pursue a complaint or request for relaxation of the regulations or determination of how the building control department are dealing with this.

 

[GMA14]

I have read about the powers from building regulations that I downloaded from the web, they haven't actually threatened us yet! They are insisting that we carry out the work to the U value - 0.35.

The council are stating that they have orders from central government to enforce the thermal wall regulations. The council have admitted that when this new change in the law occured it was not made widely aware to those in the trade. How can re-rendering come under building regulations - there is no change to the house. Yes, we have the option of insulation on the inside as well but is that just as big a job?

The cost to the council is on a sliding scale that is charged to apply for the building regulation compliance and includes inspections and admin. This depends upon the cost of the actual work being carried out. The costs start at £250 for work up to £5,000.

It seems wrong that the government is giving millions of pounds away to help people with cavity walls to help them comply but those with solid walls are penalised.

 

[Richard C]

They are insisting that we carry out the work to the U value - 0.35.

What may work in your favour is to establish the current U value & establish what additional insulation provision you need (assuming, you will need to!) & how best to achieve that; it might be in your interest to enlist the help of a specialist in the short term.

The council are stating that they have orders from central government to enforce the thermal wall regulations. The council have admitted that when this new change in the law occured it was not made widely aware to those in the trade.

Sneaked in by Prescot through the back door then!

How can re-rendering come under building regulations - there is no change to the house.

If you read Part L it should become clearer; what the regs are trying to achieve is an assurance that any building which is being substantially renovated will comply with current standards but why they chose 25% as the cut off is anyone’s guess! This also applies to other work as well such as windows, heating systems, electrics etc.

Yes, we have the option of insulation on the inside as well but is that just as big a job?

Not necessarily; if you’re doing a lot of renovation work inside & the plaster is shot anyway, it may be the better option. It certainly wont alter the outside appearance so radically & I’m surprised at the BO adopting that approach.

The cost to the council is on a sliding scale that is charged to apply for the building regulation compliance and includes inspections and admin. This depends upon the cost of the actual work being carried out. The costs start at £250 for work up to £5,000.

I posted my Building Notice back in 2005 when I believe they still came under the local council. I costed the value of notifyable work I’ve done here at less than £2,500 (nobody argued!); practically finished now & I will end up having 3 + final inspection & I paid around 130 quid. The fees now start at £145 so prices do seem to have gone up quiet dramatically since they have centralised their division which, presumably has to be self financing; looks like a nice little earner!

If you haven’t already done so, you can check the scale of charges on the CNC web site.
http://www.cncbuildingcontrol.gov.uk/admin/files/building_notice_fee_rev.pdf

It seems wrong that the government is giving millions of pounds away to help people with cavity walls to help them comply but those with solid walls are penalised.

Sounds logical to me but I don’t think logic really comes into it!

 

[GMA14]

Latest update....
A building application form + chq has been received by the council and they have now looked at our house. We have been told that we have no choice but to put 50mm insulation boards up on the side of the house, this will also involve new window cills, extending the eaves on the roof and new outside pipework. We are still waiting on quotes for this.

The front of the house that had been re-rendered before work stopped does not have to be redone! I think because we have installed cavity wall insulation of the back of the house. Our local council surveyor says that we cannot use the 15 year pay back scheme as a "get out clause". He has also accused our builder of carrying on working after we received the notification about the breach of building regulations - completley untrue.

 

[wallreform]

part l states the best standard technically ,functionally economically feasable
hence utilise wallreform thermal render this will give building regulation compliance even at 10mm thickness see www.walltransform.co.uk

 

[GMA14]

Update again!
Thank you for all your suggestions. I have contacted walltransform and am waiting for more information on costs, etc. The cost for 50mm boards plus all the extras and labour is looking to be in the region of £3 - £4k. The council are now suggesting that we go down the 15 year pay back route. This will involve further costs from a "suitably qualified person". Even making us do the work at half this cost is going to be difficult. Extra costs are now being incurred on scaffolding - work stopped 5 weeks ago. I had asked the council if it was worth us filling in the forms for a relaxation of the rules and told that we could but it was unlikely to turn out in our favour.

It has also come to light that the council incorrectly believed we carried on working after we had been made aware of the building regulations. I think this may be why they have dragged their feet so much. They should have got their facts right from the start.

In a letter to my MP the council stated that we needed to comply with "the requirements of paragraph L1(a)(i) of Schedule 1. Does this not apply to new build only? We have never received anything ourselves in writing as to which regulation we need to comply with. That is probably the next step here.

Any further comments will be welcome!

 

[wallreform]

part L amendments state, up grade to 0.35 u-value where technically,functionally, and economically feasable, if the .35 is not technically, functionally ,economically feasable the element should be up graded to the best standard that is ,hence we their are numerous local authorities applying wallreform at only 10mm thicknesses around the uk, and building control, have accepted wallreform as full filling the regulation best standard feasable. wallreform/warmawall products are the most thermally/economical products available. www.walltransform.co.uk you will however need to clarify with your own building control dept.