Referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union.

[JohnD]

Maybe the two options offered for votes do not encompass all the opinions held.

Now , now JohnD, what you really mean is , the two options offered do not encompass, "Your Opinion"

Don't be silly.

It does not encompass my opinion, there are only two options offered, therefore it clearly does not encompass all opinions.

I 'm afraid I can't back up my statement about Espana earlier as I plucked the figures out of thin air

I'm sorry to hear you base your position on made-up-lies

Waste of time discussing anything with you then.

 

[Susiejb]

Its interesting that the majority say to come out.....as I said I don't profess to be an expert on this, but if we did come out would we then not be very isolated and open ourselves up to being shunned and marginalized by those that are still 'in', so making matters worse.

 

[cantaloup63]

Its interesting that the majority say to come out.....as I said I don't profess to be an expert on this, but if we did come out would we then not be very isolated and open ourselves up to being shunned and marginalized by those that are still 'in', so making matters worse.

They need our trade as much as we need theirs. In any case, the majority of our trade takes place with non EU countries.

Yes there are benefits from being within the EU, but IMO there are too many negative aspects (in particular the despicable protectionism that France and Germany tend to adopt, which is ironic since if it weren't for those two country's behaviour over the last few centuries, non of this EU project would have been necessary ) As such, a withdrawal is by far the lesser of the two evils.

 

[JohnD]

the majority of our trade takes place with non EU countries.

Where did you get that from?

 

[joinerjohn]

They need our trade as much as we need theirs.

Nah I reckon they need our money, more than they need our trade.

As for the protectionism that France and Germany do,, It's plain to see, just in the way they deport foreign criminals from their country. All without recourse to the European Courts. Whereas in this country, the European Courts make damn sure we can't deport murderers, drug dealers, terrorists etc.
Surely the Human Rights stuff covers all of Europe? Or did the UK alone sign up to this despicable piece of legislation??
Yet another reason for us to start cutting the ties to the EU.

 

[sooey]

I think the problem with having a vote by the 'general public' is that probably 90% of the population have not got a clue about either the advantages or disadvantages of either staying in or coming out and you would have people just voting yes or no without making a proper informed decision.

The problem with not having a vote by the 'general public' is that you are then leaving the decision to people who are massively influenced by expensive lobbying groups. Who are acting on behalf of big business etc, certainly not on behalf of the general public.
Besides which, on an issue of such national importance as this, public opinion should have the right to decide, for better or worse.

 

[Susiejb]

I do agree with that sooey but the trouble is if you ask the 'average person' they really have no idea what the pros and cons are......so they would be basing their decision on snippets of info.
You really can't say 'yes' or 'no' in an educated way unless you have considered all the options and weighed it all up.

You have to remember that half the country only know how to vote on Big Brother

 

[Paul_C]

if you ask the 'average person' they really have no idea what the pros and cons are......so they would be basing their decision on snippets of info.

Couldn't the same be said for general elections?

 

[Corgigrouch]

Well I feel sorry for Germany, Not least because I'm a Kraut.... They are the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe, they work hard, pay horrible taxes and are expected to pay for the parts of Europe that apply different values.... Rather like we taxpayers paying for the long term unemployed who have no intention of getting a job.

The problem is Germany made their usual mistake of believing that the rest of Europe would stick to the rules and apply the same values that the Germans live by.... And the rest of Europe just didn't. It is fair to say that the Germans did push the Euro across Europe perhaps for their own ends and have caught a cold... Ho hum, European domination... So near and yet so far away...

I voted to stay in but with major revisions to the terms but as things move on I feel more that Britain should distance themselves from Europe and start trading with the rest of the world again...

How long before Berlusconi is found hanging from a lamp post?

 

[Brigadier]

They need our trade as much as we need theirs.

Nah I reckon they need our money, more than they need our trade.

As for the protectionism that France and Germany do,, It's plain to see, just in the way they deport foreign criminals from their country. All without recourse to the European Courts. Whereas in this country, the European Courts make damn sure we can't deport murderers, drug dealers, terrorists etc.
Surely the Human Rights stuff covers all of Europe? Or did the UK alone sign up to this despicable piece of legislation??
Yet another reason for us to start cutting the ties to the EU.

I don't know how the Human Rights Act was implemented into UK law, but EU law doesn't have to be transcribed word for word into each sovereign state's statutes - as long as the main spirit is complied with.
So it's at least possible that "our" version is more weighted in the favour of the ne'er do well, in contrast to the implementation the Germans enacted. Or their courts might just interpret the same wording differently.

 

[Brigadier]

I just can't highlight selected sections of quoted text

 

[JohnD]

So it's at least possible that "our" version is more weighted in the favour of the ne'er do well, in contrast to the implementation the Germans enacted. Or their courts might just interpret the same wording differently.

You are presupposing that there is some truth in the allegation that the UK enforces laws rigourously, and those dastardly foreigners don't?

Apart from the Daily Wail, or the rest of the anti-Europe lobby is there any evidence to support this opinion?

p.s.

I don't know how the Human Rights Act was implemented into UK law, but EU law doesn't have to be transcribed word for word into each sovereign state's statutes

The Human Rights Act did not come from the EU, and is not an EU law.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

if you ask the 'average person' they really have no idea what the pros and cons are......so they would be basing their decision on snippets of info.

Couldn't the same be said for general elections?

You my friend are far to intelligent for this forum.

 

[joinerjohn]

So it's at least possible that "our" version is more weighted in the favour of the ne'er do well, in contrast to the implementation the Germans enacted. Or their courts might just interpret the same wording differently.

You are presupposing that there is some truth in the allegation that the UK enforces laws rigourously, and those dastardly foreigners don't?

Apart from the Daily Wail, or the rest of the anti-Europe lobby is there any evidence to support this opinion?



The Human Rights Act did not come from the EU, and is not an EU law.

Hmm, Let's think about that,,, Didn't the French Government order the deportation of thousands of Roma gypsies from Paris? This was in almost all daily newspapers and BBC and ITV news some months ago. I never heard of one Roma gypsy (that do have European Rights) complaining to the ECHR about their deportation (probably because the French bribed them to leave , nevertheless it was deportation) The EU even threatened to fine the French Government for what it termed "an illegal move"

You still saying that our continental cousins play by the same rules ??(the ones they break to suit themselves, with impunity from the EU) ???

Germany too, has a large population of immigrant workers from Turkey. These Turkish people have been there years and have borne families in Germany. What nationality do these children possess? Certainly not German (even though they were born there) A Turkish worker in Germany could be deported and even though he/she has children born in Germany, the children are not recognised as being German, therefore they can't go to the ECHR claiming the right to a family life in an EU country.
What would happen in this country?? I reckon we all know the answer to that.

Yet whenever I or others bring attention to the state of affairs in this country, we're immediately accused of being xenophobic. Perhaps the time has come for our little puppet country to follow the examples being set by our new masters in Europe. Let's do as they do where immigrants and foreigners are concerned.

Sounds fair enough to me.

 

[enyam]

I am in favour of members of the EU joining a single currency. I am in favour of the UK being part of the EU. So yes.

Today might not be the best day to do it though.

When we had an all singing and dancing economy under Blair and Brown we never joined,now we are in the bust cycle we won't join so there is no right time.