registration

[omahied]

I have just bought a gas fire from B and Q which I intend to fit this week today a workmate informed me all new gas fires must be registered he does not know where and I did not recieve any registration documents can anyone offer any advice on this?

 

[chrishutt]

You are not allowed to fit a gas fire unless you are competent to do so (which means having a high level of specialised knowledge). You should get a Corgi registered installer to fit it. He will also deal with all the Building Regulation and Gas Safety requirements, including "notification".

 

[omahied]

Ive been fitting gas fires for over 20 years and as of now have killed or injured no one I have been working on gas fired industrial boilers for over 30 years without mishap so I may not have a domestic qualification but am more than capable of fitting a fire.Why you thought to answer in such a negative way is beyond me if you dont know the answer to my question why post an answer it makes you look worse than me at least I have asked a question where you have posted with an all round :get a corgi in: bluff reply.

 

[meldrew's_mate]

So if you're prepared to work illegally you won't need to know about the Building Regs, as you haven't killed anyone......yet.

 

[omahied]

Mildreds mate why do you think I am working illegaly, do you not think we have regs in the industrial or commercial sector and please dont trot out the usual tripe about corgi, most people on this forum know the legal situation thats why I posted what I thought was a straigtforward query on here. I did not expect to be pounced on by half educated chancers as Ive said to the last poster if you dont know the answer why post? now if anyone has any sensible info that would assist me with the aforementioned registration of new gas fires please post even if its just to say you dont know.That way I can then look elsewhere for info

 

[smudge1946]

go here, they seem more helpful and flexable, but there are dead head's on all sites mate, just ignore them, most folk's are helpful. I think below is the right addy if not go to Google.
Good luck
groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y

 

[oilman]

omahied, all new heating appliances installed in domestic houses have to be notified to building control. I only do oil, so I might have things a bit wrong, but be sure someone will tell me .

Once upon a time, the big nasty gas board, thought they could have a closed shop and keep everybody out of central heating except their guys. That didn't work and they only managed to corner the gas market. They cited safety as the reason (load of crap, as the standard of some of the "competent" people doing the work today demonstrates). Sorry Chrishutt, but these competencies do not require "a high level of specialised knowledge", the requirement is for "minimum competence" and until relatively recently, if you could read and tick boxes, you could pass the assessments.

What this boils down to is you need to be corgi registered to install gas appliances if it is "work", there is a continuing argument as to whether home owners can do it themselves as long as they inform building control of the intention to do the work, and then let them know when they've done it. Most of the corgi guys get on their horse at this point.

You may know this, of course, and if your corgi registered, you just have to register the installation with corgi, for a fee. AFAIK, that's it (now I'll duck to avoit the flak.

 

[chrishutt]

Sorry Chrishutt, but these competencies do not require "a high level of specialised knowledge"

Well you didn't expect me to let that pass, did you?

As it happens, I've just come back from looking at a gas fire installed by a DIYer who doubtless felt that he was competent, and who probably is competent by oilman's definition.

The installation was a decorative fuel-effect fire with 10kW output, set in an iron coal fire set in a fireplace. There was no purpose provided ventilation and the fire flue restrictor plate was in place and loose.

Now I would say that it requires a "high level of specialised knowledge" to appreciate how potentially dangerous that situation was. And that's quite a simple example.

How would you feel, oilman, if I started tinkering with oil boilers on the grounds that I thought I was competent to do so?

 

[oilman]

Chrishutt, I wasn't trying to have a go, and for all I care, you can tinker with what you like, you also can't deny there are some pretty appalling operators out there who are corgi registered. The fact remains, when you pass an assessment, you have only minimum competence, and unless this is all encompassing there is still a lot of learning to be done, hence I would not agree that the time of passing you have a "high level" of knowledge.

As for your DIYer, I would not define him as competent, since you have to pass an assessment for that. I'm surprised you have done a "freddie" though, and put quite as much of a twist on what I said.

From what I've seen of your posts on here, I'd be quite happy if you were dabbling with oil boilers, (though I wouldn't do the same with gas ones) howeveryou might be ok working on them, Prescott says you aren't a Competent Person unless you've passed the OFTEC assessments. There are quite a few people who are registered, and I've had to fix the bodges they've inflicted on unsuspecting customers, just as you have had to do, no doubt, with some of your gas jobs.

 

[chrishutt]

you also can't deny there are some pretty appalling operators out there who are corgi registered.

I've said much the same myself on many occasions. I also agree with much, if not all, of what you're saying. I certainly wasn't trying to put a twist on it or to do a "freddie", whatever that is.

However I think that gas appliances (and gas fires in particular) are potentially dangerous and should therefore only be installed and maintained by people who are competent to do so. This then leads to the need for something like Corgi and ACS assessments, imperfect as it all is.

Getting back to the issue here, should we be encouraging people to install gas appliances when there is no evidence to show that they are competent? I think not, and if I've understood your posts, I think you would agree, wouldn't you?

 

[oilman]

Getting back to the issue here, should we be encouraging people to install gas appliances when there is no evidence to show that they are competent? I think not, and if I've understood your posts, I think you would agree, wouldn't you?

From a trade point of view, I agree, but from a world point of view, as long as it doesn't affect me (however remotely) then the more the merrier. There are something in the order of 6,000,000,000 people on earth and sooner or later something catastrophic is going to happen, and it just might be D.I.Y

 

[omahied]

Thank god ...I thought I had joined a forum of imbiciles, oilman is spot on. In every walk of life there are chancers. people who can talk a good job. I had asked a simple question and thought I was going to be asked to roll up my trouser leg and bare my right breast for an answer.I am all for discouraging anyone undertaking work which may harm someone if they are not capable but this is a d.i.y site and as such I think people should be encouraged to tackle projects and get assistance here when snags occur I will certainly give advice when I can.This is a public forum not the internet police,thanks for the info oilman I will check it out now. Cheers also to smudge restored my faith in this site

 

[Paul Barker]

It's very simple, all gas installations haved to be notified to corgi at a cost of £2.50 if carried out online. Corgi collate that information for building control and send the householder a certificate similar to the Fensa one.

When after June 2007 if the householder tries to sell their house the Home Condition Report will highlight the lack of compliance.

So the people you need to talk to are corgi. You could of course try to register your job with building control but they will just refer you to corgi.

 

[anjme]

Only people registered with Corgi can install and therefore register a gas appliance.
Like it or not, it is the law of the land that only these people, Corgi registered installers, can register an installation of a gas fire.

If you install a gas fire, even in your own home, and you are not registered with Corgi as an approved person you are deemed to be breaking the law. Even if you can fly Concorde, if you have not sought to register yourself as an approved person to fit a domestic gas fire you are breaking the law if you attempt to install one.

Corgi installers do not make the rules we just have to pay an extortionate amount of money to register to be able, legally, to work.

As an example I used to fit gas meters for British Gas, I fitted gas meters so large we used a 24" Stilson wrench to tighten the unions. Now if I fit a gas meter I will be breaking the law, why ? because I have not bothered to pay Corgi to be registered to do so.

 

[PaulAH]

Oilman, you are a difficult character. One moment you're wasting your breath on chat forums, the next you deliver a devastatingly insightful view of the topsy-turvy world of state regulation. In the past year or two you have spent a fair amount of time roasting me for bucking the system, then you pour scorn on that same system.

For what it's worth, I think the problem runs much deeper than Corgi or non-Corgi, Oftec or non-Oftec. Take two good friends of mine:

One has specialised in industrial refrigeration for over 30 years. He has designed, built and commissioned systems for multi-million pound businesses whose life quite literally depends on them. He claims - and I believe him - that he's never had a failure except when the customer has driven down the price so far that he's had to specify against his better judgement.

He understands the physics of refrigeration, the formulae, the good and bad practices, the tricks and the dodges, as well as anyone alive. He can listen to the heartbeat of a giant plant and tell instinctively what is wrong with it. He is honest as the day is long.

His business is a small one; as such he does not have time to go on courses and sit exams. So as far as J Prescott is concerned, he is a maverick and should not be allowed to trade. Most of his recent work is probably illegal. He could, in theory, be banged up.

When you see the work of some "qualified" people, is this right?

The other guy has a degree in electrical engineering from long ago and has decided to get his hands dirty again after spending most of his career in marketing. He's back to being a student, is currently taking exams, and is appalled by the mindlessness of the tick-box questions which, he says, do not require any depth of understanding.

He was also horrified by the exam conditions - the computer on which he was supposed to tick his boxes was so slow that he spent more time wrestling with the keyboard than thinking about the questions.

These two benefit from a natural curiosity that comes from an education - one formal, the other from the real world - which encouraged them to think, to probe and to question. People like this are becoming hard to find in today's world of tick-boxes. If they haven't been "trained" in some "skill" they don't want to know about it, even less find out for themselves. But they're pretty damn smart at filling in timesheets.

The education system is to cock, which is why I guess some of us are increasingly suspicious of the whole "qualifications" business. People are not encouraged to think any more, merely to absorb oven-ready truisms and then answer multiple choice questions that a group of chimps could get right on a good day.

Prescott may be trying to encourage higher standards in the building industry by demanding that everyone who wields a screwdriver should be "qualified" - a worthy enough objective - but he and his cronies are failing to address the more basic question of why he thinks the entire population, other than those who have passed a stage-managed exam, are incapable of wiring a plug.