Removed Socket - Connections

[Ampimpaired]

I have removed a double socket on a ring main and used the two sets of cables (incoming 2.5mm & outgoing 2.5mm) to open into a ring extension, i.e one cable heads off one way with new sockets and returns back to this point.
What is the accepted way of joining the cables??? At the moment I have them connected by 30amp Junction boxes (one for each cable) but I will need to flush mount them. I understand I can't just expand the original hole from the original socket mounting box and bury them under plaster...or can I?

I can't find anything along the lines of a connection box to do this job!

Also, is there anything against the two cables on a ring "coming together" within the ring - imagine taking away a socket and connecting the two cables in a junction box then taking a new mini ring from this point and back - (4 cables jointed together, linking main ring with small extension ring) or to put it another way use just one of the 30amp junction boxes of the two I currently have!!

Your comments (abusive or otherwise) gratefully taken!!

 

[breezer]

crimps (see for refeernce)

I am not 100% sure, but i think your answer is NO, but if you use crimps you wont need to as the question

 

[Ampimpaired]

Crimps!! I have never had experience of crimping on mains cabling, although I do in autoelectrics, and then crimping is regarded as a poor relation to solder and heat shrinking, are you seriously saying that crimping is accepted practice in home electrics??? If this is so, am I to understand I can just crimp connect and then bury in plaster???

 

[breezer]

try a search, and also do look in for reference

 

[Ampimpaired]

Thanks, I have been searching but now I am more confused as I found this : //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3008 which you have posted elsewhere and seems to contradict what you are saying to me although the guy seems to be asking basically the same - i think!!!!

 

[Adam_151]

Bridged rings are most definatly frowned upon, and I am 95% sure they are not allowed.

In the case of the original poster, if he took a new, large ring from a socket at the end of of an existing ring, and this new ring got loaded up with heaters, etc, it would be like having a large load at the end of the original ring (which is a Bad Thing)

 

[breezer]

no he isnt, he wanted to move a socket, you want to extend the ring.

by using crimps you can fit them inside the exisiting socket, you cant do that with a jb

 

[Ampimpaired]

Thanks 4 your input guys, what I am doing is;

I have a double socket that sits halfway up the wall in my dining room - (cables come from above) from that is an old spur taken horizontally at chest height onto ajoining wall.

I have removed the double socket on the main, disconnectd the spur and continued the cable from the ceiling down the wall to a new socket then around to 3 new doubles (one replacing the spur) and back again.

All I need to know is the best way of connecting the cables where the old socket was halfway down wall (I currently have a 2, 30amp jb's - so not bridged - but I need to make this flush!

I guessed that bridging was dodgy (hence 2 jb's as temp measure) so I will rule that out, I can't easily run new cables to avoid a joint because it's impossible to trace them back upstairs through above extension.

The only things I can find to joint are, choc blox, encased insulated choc blox (max 20amp) and standard JB's which I cant bury in plaster!

I am confused about crimps now and I can't find a purpose built connector device (eg a standard size metal box with internal 30amp connections with a metal lid that I can plaster over rather than a surface mounted blanking plate for it!

I can take a pic of my problem if it will help!!!

Cheers guys!

 

[breezer]

you cant plaster over any jb as access will be required to it

 

[Ampimpaired]

So do I crimp them and bury them?

 

[breezer]

you shoulnn't bury them either damp will cause corrosion

 

[Ampimpaired]

So is tracing the cable and laying new ones the only way to do this, is there no way or connecting cable together and having the wall fush???

 

[breezer]

you can clush mout a box and put a blanking plate on it. if it is then to be wallpaprered no one says you cant cyt a sure of matching qall paper and sitck it on. but this way it still leaves access should it be required

you could also use crimps in trunking, so long as its not fluhed in the wall

if i were you i would rewire it, so that you take a new cablefrom previous socket to new part of ring then from other part of new ring to another socket, by passing the "problem one, but putting it back onto new part of ring if its still required, that way no joints only in sockets where they should be

 

[Agile]

Perhaps I am missing something obvious but assuming you have a metal box already recessed into the wall, surely a flat blanking plate is virtually flush and will allow access in the future.

If you really wanted to you could further recess the metal box so that when the blanking plate is fitted the surface becomes flush with the surrounding plaster.

Jointing 2.5 mm ringmain cable seems to be a bodge however people do it. Crimping is widely and successfully used on larger cable sizes but needs to be very carefully done on small cable and I would not recommend it for the inexperienced. In many ways replacing the cable back to the last fitting is far better and avoids any joints at all.

I once saw an electrician working as a contractor to SWEB doing a rewire using polythene choc blocks whenever he needed to joint a cable. Trouble is any slight overheating and the polythene melts at about 130*C and shorts the wires together.

Tony Glazier

 

[plugwash]

I once saw an electrician working as a contractor to SWEB doing a rewire using polythene choc blocks whenever he needed to joint a cable. Trouble is any slight overheating and the polythene melts at about 130*C and shorts the wires together.

i'm not sure thats a bad thing. if a fault develops its surely better for it to short and take out the fuse/breaker before any damage is done that for it to heat up further and start damaging other stuff.