Rennovating plaster work in 60 year old house

[arogueant]

Hi. Just joined the site as have found other posts useful in the past. Just bought a 60 year old house to rennovate. Stripped wallpaper anticipating re-skimming walls, but have the following questions to which any answers would be appreciated;
1) I read conflicting view about gaps between boards when boarding a ceiling or wall, anything from no gaps (butt tight to each others) to 3mm. If I aim to board (square edged) and then tape and skim, do I leave a gap (between boards and at joins to walls) or not? are the rules different for wall and ceilings?
2) I am replacing skirting board and architraves, but hoping to re-use door linings. Given that the linings are currently flush with the old plasterwork, after reskimming they will be recessed behind the new plaster finish. I thought that skirts and architrave went on after plaster finish, but in this instance should I get the architraves on before getting the walls skimmed?
3) There are various placed (particularly around windows) where the plasterwork is off down to the brickwork. Is it OK to apply a reasonable careful bit of patching plaster to these bits expecting the skim coat to make the patching indistiguishable from the rest of the wall?
4) The external corners of the plasterwork are finished with curved wooden strips. Im a bit concerned about just skimming over these, but if I try to replace them with metal corner beads, there will be a thickish area beneath the new beads which is unsupported (the wooden corners are recessed into the plasterwork) - what is the best way to go here? I don't think metal beads will go on over the wooden ones rather than replacing them, but does anyone think that might be an option given only skimming over the top?
5) I need to get rid of a small upstairs fireplace - can I just remove fireplace, frame out and nail plasterboard across, tape and the just skim over?
6) I have the reverse problem with the skirting that I have with the architrave. The old skirting was recessed into / under the plaster rather than nailed on flush after plastering was finished. I therefore have quite a big recess over which new skirting needs to be fitted (which will get a bit deeper after new skim coat). Should I wait until after skimming and then attempt to do a lot of packing out to get skirting on flush, or try to get skirting on first (like the architrave) and then skim down to it. Also is there and alternative to packing out (e.g. getting in a load of patching plaster at the bottom of the wall where skirts have come out, and then getting skim coat over walls extended down over patching plaster and then putting on new skirting after skim)? I'm not to sure how good an attachment I'll get for the skirting if nailing / screwing into a couple of inches of patching plaster!

Any help much appreciated - doubt it'll be the last post I make! Thanks

 

[Richard C]

Jheeze so many questions in one post

1) I read conflicting view about gaps between boards when boarding a ceiling or wall, anything from no gaps (butt tight to each others) to 3mm. If I aim to board (square edged) and then tape and skim, do I leave a gap (between boards and at joins to walls) or not? are the rules different for wall and ceilings?

Board tight with no gaps.

2) I am replacing skirting board and architraves, but hoping to re-use door linings. Given that the linings are currently flush with the old plasterwork, after reskimming they will be recessed behind the new plaster finish.

Not a problem; assuming your chosen “spread” knows what they are doing; they will easily “loose it” so it’ll make no difference.

I thought that skirts and architrave went on after plaster finish, but in this instance should I get the architraves on before getting the walls skimmed?

No leave everything off & fit after.

3) There are various placed (particularly around windows) where the plasterwork is off down to the brickwork. Is it OK to apply a reasonable careful bit of patching plaster to these bits expecting the skim coat to make the patching indistiguishable from the rest of the wall?

Judging by your questions, I suspect you’re not experienced at remedial work so I would advise you don’t do anything before you talk to your chosen spread. Using the wrong materials or insufficient/incorrect preparation could just make more work for your spread & more expense for you. Your spread may be happy for you to help out with prep (personally I’m not) but follow his lead, pay attention & do exactly as he says.

4) The external corners of the plasterwork are finished with curved wooden strips. Im a bit concerned about just skimming over these,

Although I know they exist, I’ve never seen a wooden corner bead so I will bow to others on here who I know are more experienced. You can’t skim over wood so my approach would to remove it & do remedial repairs on the corner before skimming; but I await with interest other suggestions.

but if I try to replace them with metal corner beads, there will be a thickish area beneath the new beads which is unsupported (the wooden corners are recessed into the plasterwork) - what is the best way to go here? I don't think metal beads will go on over the wooden ones rather than replacing them, but does anyone think that might be an option given only skimming over the top?

I go back to my previous comment; you need to talk to your (experienced) spread before you do anything but be careful, some may not even be aware of possible problems & just skim over the lot, which will be a big mistake

5) I need to get rid of a small upstairs fireplace - can I just remove fireplace, frame out and nail plasterboard across, tape and the just skim over?

Well basically yes but you cant just blank it off; a flue must be have ventilation or you will get problems with damp & condensation; you must have an open grill at the bottom & a weather proof cowl on the pot to prevent rain penetration.

6) I have the reverse problem with the skirting that I have with the architrave. The old skirting was recessed into / under the plaster rather than nailed on flush after plastering was finished. I therefore have quite a big recess over which new skirting needs to be fitted (which will get a bit deeper after new skim coat). Should I wait until after skimming and then attempt to do a lot of packing out to get skirting on flush, or try to get skirting on first (like the architrave) and then skim down to it. Also is there and alternative to packing out (e.g. getting in a load of patching plaster at the bottom of the wall where skirts have come out, and then getting skim coat over walls extended down over patching plaster and then putting on new skirting after skim)? I'm not to sure how good an attachment I'll get for the skirting if nailing / screwing into a couple of inches of patching plaster!

Take it all off & start again; level everything out with render or Bonding then skim, then fit all the finishing timber trim after; nail architrave but I fit skirting with a trade grab adhesive now rather than nails.

 

[roughcaster]

4) The external corners of the plasterwork are finished with curved wooden strips. Im a bit concerned about just skimming over these, but if I try to replace them with metal corner beads, there will be a thickish area beneath the new beads which is unsupported (the wooden corners are recessed into the plasterwork) - what is the best way to go here? I don't think metal beads will go on over the wooden ones

Richard has covered your questions perfectly,, but as regards to question 4, (above),,,, yes you "can", (after a little prep), fix a metal corner bead to a rounded wooden bead. The bead i'm talking about, is the rigid, thin coat bead,, and NOT the the mini mesh bead. If you tried to remove the old wooden bead from the wall corner, you would cause a fair bit of damage to the lath and plaster,, so better to leave it in.
The job i'm working on at the moment has the old, rounded wooden corner beading around the front door reveals/soffit, and i'll find out tomorrow if the lady wants the old reveal corners/soffit made square with beading/plaster,, if she does, i'll take some pics on Monday, upload them on here, and explain what im doing,, it's easier with pictures.

Roughcaster.

 

[arogueant]

Thanks to Richard C and roughcaster - the promised pictures of the job re the beading would be gratefully received and very interesting - hope the job comes off!
1) why do certain books sites tell you to leave gaps between boards - seems to be to allow for 'movement' - you obviously believe this is wrong - why?
2) we architraves, what do I look for to ensure that spread knows what they are doing? Can't see how they can lose it so if you could explain I'd be very grateful - is they skim flat then architrave sits on plaster but above door lining, if they taper the skim then architraves may sit flush at edges to both surfaces, but presumably the mitring of the joins gets skewed?
3) Unfortunately inexperience also means that I won't know whether 'spread' is selling me a pup or not! Is there no advice you can give on patching holes in plaster that is down to brickwork? Some of this work needs to be done well in advance of the skimming work.
5) Have cowell at the top - so need to fit grill into new piece of plasterboard somewhere? Any recommendations on grill to use?
6) Thanks for this advice - when you say render, is this the same stuff that gets used on the outside of a house or something more specific - I assume you mean that this stuff will give a better surface for attaching skirting than patching plaster.

Thanks once again - you input is much appreciated.

 

[Richard C]

1) why do certain books sites tell you to leave gaps between boards - seems to be to allow for 'movement' - you obviously believe this is wrong - why?

What “certain books/sites” are you reading; the manufacturer's (British Gypsum) own technical data recommends the boards are “lightly butted with no more than a 3mm gap”. You don’t need gaps between the boards to allow for movement, in fact that’s the last thing you want as it will crack. If there are any gaps, always fill them first before taping, if you just stick the tape over the gap & skim, you are likely to get a tell tale line along the join where the plaster shrinks into the gap; also, all that will be bridging the two boards will be approximately 3mm of finishing plaster & it will most likely crack along the join.

2) we architraves, what do I look for to ensure that spread knows what they are doing? Can't see how they can lose it so if you could explain I'd be very grateful - is they skim flat then architrave sits on plaster but above door lining, if they taper the skim then architraves may sit flush at edges to both surfaces, but presumably the mitring of the joins gets skewed?

What you spread will do is trowel the plaster off to nothing from about 300mm away from the door lining. The bit right on the edge sometimes ends up a bit scabby because of the grit size in the plaster but the architrave covers this. The Architrave is nailed to the door lining & you won’t notice the slight taper on the wall or at the architrave mitres; the door lining may well have shrunk back behind the plaster level so may not be flush anyway; just run a thin bead of decorators caulk down the architrave & wipe with a wet finger (or sponge) before painting.

3) Unfortunately inexperience also means that I won't know whether 'spread' is selling me a pup or not! Is there no advice you can give on patching holes in plaster that is down to brickwork? Some of this work needs to be done well in advance of the skimming work.

Get a recommendation from others & ask if you can see some of their work & speak to a satisfied customer. If you really want to do your own repairs & prep. spend some time reading through the archive posts on this forum; I don’t think there is anything that has not been covered in detail before & there are many threads on the what/how to patching holes & repairing cracks etc. which must be done before plastering if you want to avoid seeing them again in the re-plastered wall. Do some research of your own & come back with specific questions if you need. It’s because of your inexperience I don’t advise you undertake any comprehensive repairs without understanding what you are doing first. As I said, I don’t like plastering over DIY repairs & prep & if I’m met with a wall full of bad repairs & holes filled with a hotch potch of fillers, I will in all probability want to remove it & start again or I will probably walk away, it’s the only way I can guarantee the quality of my work. Remember if your spread does everything & it goes wrong it can only be his fault; if you do the repairs/prep & it goes wrong, it’s almost certainly going to be your fault! Doing your own repairs & prep sounds like a good way to save money on the job but in reality, it makes little difference to the time or cost unless it’s extensive &, unless you know what your doing, may turn out more expensive if it goes wrong.

5) Have cowell at the top - so need to fit grill into new piece of plasterboard somewhere? Any recommendations on grill to use?

Sorry, I don’t understand your question; are you talking about an air brick or some sort of vent?

6) Thanks for this advice - when you say render, is this the same stuff that gets used on the outside of a house or something more specific - I assume you mean that this stuff will give a better surface for attaching skirting than patching plaster.

It’s very similar but external render may also have a waterproofing additive mixed in. Render is used as/instead of a base plaster, it’s better in some ways & is cheaper if you have a lot to do but is more difficult to use. It has nothing to do with being better or worse for attaching skirting, I use a trade grab adhesive not nails for that anyway. I don’t like & would not use so called “patching or one coat plasters”; they are generally a DIY product, take ages to go off & can be very soft. I refer again to what I said above with regards doing your own repairs; do some research first, if you use the wrong materials or do it incorrectly you will only make matters worse.

 

[wozza56]

The board needs to be as close a fit to prevent any cracking as you cant plaster thin air ,yes it should be taped but the bigger the gap the more chance of problems
"loosing it" means feathering it into the edge and the spread should also be able to do this with the rounded wooden edging if you wish to keep them usually easiest if either side a line is scored removing a thin amount of plaster
Patching is really dependant on seeing the job and as you are inexperienced you could be making more work for the spread thus costing more in the long run so leave it to them
Any of the brick sized plastic grills should be ok
Render is a sand and cement mix ,with this i would take the skirting off first to see how it is attatched ,if its nailed to noggings in the wall it may be possible to pack those out and refix to them thus bringing the skirting out to the desired position