Replacing down lighters in bathroom

[wayneward25]

Hi removed the downlighters in a bathroom today to skim the ceiling and noticed that some of the wiring to one of the lights was black and disintegrated. I have isolated the lights to the bathroom and plan on replacing them with new downlighters.

There are 3 downlighters in the bathroom all running off one transformer in the loft. The lighting circuit is not rcd protected and there was insulation all over the downlights.

I plan on swapping these for 3 x 12v downlighters with each having there own tranformer. Would I need to rcd protect the circuit and notify building control to swap these?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

some of the wiring to one of the lights was black and disintegrated.

If it is the cable of the lampholder, it may be that all that is required to swap is the lampholder (with cable). If it is the cable of the actual circuit, this would then require to be cut back to a clean and undamaged section of cable or replaced.

I have isolated the lights to the bathroom

Safe isolation is important, always use the correct approved equipment and procedures when taking on this task.

There are 3 downlighters in the bathroom all running off one transformer in the loft. The lighting circuit is not rcd protected and there was insulation all over the downlights.

The downlights and transformers require to be free of insulation to allow for ventilation and prevent over heating.
The regulations require RCD protection on all low voltage circuits within the location, it could be considered that the low voltage circuit is not actually within the location of the bathroom as it is in the loft, and the the fittings are to be run off 12V (SELV) transformers. But there would be a case for RCD protection for any cable that is not mechanically protected that is buried less than 50mm within a wall.
Bearing in mind these regulations are only 5-6 years old, it could be argued against if the installation was made prior to 2008.

I plan on swapping these for 3 x 12v downlighters with each having there own tranformer. Would I need to rcd protect the circuit and notify building control to swap these?

RCD protection as above, notification is not required if replacing and if fitting are outside the bathroom zones. //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:speclcn:bathroom_zones
Also as there is a loft space above and you would require to protect this space against moisture, the preferred choice of replacement lights, would be ones that complied to part C of building regs.

 

[wayneward25]

The spots are going to be above 2.25 m so will be outside the zones and no cables will be in any of the walls as they are all in the loft, I will be moving all the insulation out of the way.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Moving the insulation out of the way will contravene the Building Regulations.

You need to build or buy enclosures of sufficient size to provide the clearances required by the lights, and these need to be sealed to the ceiling to prevent the passage of air into the loft (or that'll be another contravention, to say nothing of possible structural damage over time), and then the insulation needs to be reinstated over the top.

 

[diyer56]

Sorry to jump on this topic, however I have a similar setup in my bathroom whereby the previous owner has installed downlighters. In the attic the insulation has just been pulled to one side however there is nothing preventing the insulation from moving back into place.

I would prefer not to have to replace the downlighters, however I will if this is the best course of action (perhaps with some 12v, low energy, low heat examples?). The other option I suppose would be to build enclosures over the top, however as I have no information about the fittings how do I know the clearance dimensions?

What would be your recommendation? Replace lights or box in? And if the latter, how should I do this?

 

[bernardgreen]

This is worth reading when selecting down lighters and thinking about the safety aspects of installing them.

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/guidance/DownlighterTradeLfltweb.pdf

 

[riveralt]

What would be your recommendation? Replace lights or box in? And if the latter, how should I do this?

Fit these:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-downlight-insulation-guard-340mm/84802

 

[diyer56]

What would be your recommendation? Replace lights or box in? And if the latter, how should I do this?

Fit these:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-downlight-insulation-guard-340mm/84802[/QUOTE]

Thank you, seems like a great solution - total cost will be around £50 though

Grin and take it I guess

Looking at other items on the Screwfix website Is it also worth switching to low energy bulbs maybe? Perhaps LED or CFL

http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/gu10-led/cat4750064

Would this reduce the heat too?

 

[riveralt]

Looking at other items on the Screwfix website Is it also worth switching to low energy bulbs maybe? Perhaps LED or CFL
http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/gu10-led/cat4750064
Would this reduce the heat too?

5 Lamps at 50w each = 250w
5 LED lamps at 4w = 20w
It will reduce your electricity bill - it will also reduce the heat - but don't be fooled into believing that LED lights do not produce heat - they do - which is why most have a big heat sink wrapped around them - be guided by the manufacturers instructions regarding the minimum space around the bulbs.

Two other things - the bulbs you linked to are GU10 (230v) if you intend to go down the 12v you will need MR16 led or equivalent 12v bulbs - and a transformer - which by the way will also require minimum space around it.

The other thing is that the metal covers also come in a smaller size at a slightly cheaper price.

 

[diyer56]

Looking at other items on the Screwfix website Is it also worth switching to low energy bulbs maybe? Perhaps LED or CFL
http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/gu10-led/cat4750064
Would this reduce the heat too?

5 Lamps at 50w each = 250w
5 LED lamps at 4w = 20w
It will reduce your electricity bill - it will also reduce the heat - but don't be fooled into believing that LED lights do not produce heat - they do - which is why most have a big heat sink wrapped around them - be guided by the manufacturers instructions regarding the minimum space around the bulbs.

Two other things - the bulbs you linked to are GU10 (230v) if you intend to go down the 12v you will need MR16 led or equivalent 12v bulbs - and a transformer - which by the way will also require minimum space around it.

The other thing is that the metal covers also come in a smaller size at a slightly cheaper price.

Thanks RiverAlt.

I was thinking I could keep the existing 230v fittings but use LED bulbs to reduce the heat (albeit slightly) and energy consumption. This would be easier than replacing the existing fittings with 12v equivalents.

I take it the GU10 LED bulbs are direct replacement for GU10 halogen?

I will also fit the enclosures as linked in the previous post to tidy up the attic space.

 

[riveralt]

I take it the GU10 LED bulbs are direct replacement for GU10 halogen?

It says that they are and equivalent to 35w.

 

[diyer56]

Thank you

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Fit these:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-downlight-insulation-guard-340mm/84802[/QUOTE]
Not exactly airtight - will do SFA to stop warm moist air from the bathroom getting into the loft and causing condensation leading to mould and possibly rot.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I recently replaced some down lights in a customers bathroom.
I used the JCC FGLED7 downlights.
These 7w lights give similar output to the 50w gu10s that were fitted. Also the fittings allow insulation to go right over the top. So no boxes etc needed.
Details at http://www.jcc.co.uk/products/featured-products/fireguard-led7/product-design

Edit: also see page 14 here re compliance with building regs.
http://www.jcc.co.uk/media/downloads/brochures/JCC_FGLED_Product_Brochure.pdf

 

[diyer56]

I recently replaced some down lights in a customers bathroom.
I used the JCC FGLED7 downlights.
These 7w lights give similar output to the 50w gu10s that were fitted. Also the fittings allow insulation to go right over the top. So no boxes etc needed.
Details at http://www.jcc.co.uk/products/featured-products/fireguard-led7/product-design

Edit: also see page 14 here re compliance with building regs.
http://www.jcc.co.uk/media/downloads/brochures/JCC_FGLED_Product_Brochure.pdf[/QUOTE]

These are very nice. I assume "integrated driver" means they take 230v? Only thing is the 5 x £35 to replace my existing units