Replacing light fitting with new LED light

[Pilnet101]

Hi all,

Wondering if I could just get a bit of guidance for wiring a new light if that's okay as it would be my first time doing it! I know saying that alone is enough to make most people on here squirm, I have tried to do quite a bit of research and think I know what to do.

So I've attached two images, one of the old ceiling rose currently fitted to the ceiling and the other is the base of the new light. Firstly, before doing anything I'm turning off all power directly at the CU and using a tester screwdriver to check the power is off. As per the picture of the ceiling rose, the labelling for neutral and line on the terminal block is the wrong way round. This is also backed up by the fact the live from the original light pendant was connected to the part marked N on the block and the neutral was connected to L, before I took it off.

So my plan is to use 4x WAG222 WAGO connector blocks. I'll connect the switch live (currently connected the N on the terminal block) to one 2 input connector. Should I put a bit of red electrical tape on this to for future ref? I'll put all 3 lives which are currently connected to loop on the terminal block, including the switch perm live - to a 3 input connector. The 2 neutrals, currently connected to the L on the terminal block, in one 3 input connector and lastly the 3 earth's to one 5 input connector. Finally, I'll cut a piece of 0.75mm 3 core flex (not sure how long this should be exactly?) and connect the 3 cores from one end to the new light fitting and for the other end, the live to the 2 input connector with the switch live, the neutral to the 3 way with the other 2 neutrals and the earth to the 5 way with the other earth's. Sorry when I've been saying input connector, I mean the wago blocks.

Then I plan to put all the wago blocks into the ceiling void, is there any problem to doing this? Do they have to be enclosed? I've also brought a stud detector as the new light fitting is much bigger than the old rose so I don't want to be screwing into any cables! Would this suffice and give me piece of mind I'm not screwing into cables? Are there any other considerations here, or am I thinking about anything wrong?

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Ell

 

[333rocky333]

Wagos loose under the floor dont sound good to me.
Id be tempted to use a hagar J804, make a bigger hole in the ceiling for it and you can also see what your fixing the new light into.
Then again you could get all the wires into the fitting and use the wagos there.
All subject to loosening the old rose and seeing how much slack on wires.

 

[Pilnet101]

Thanks for the reply Rocky.

The light is in the downstairs toilet and there is no room with a floor above, just the outside roof. Does that make any difference or do you just mean the fact there are loose wagos in the ceiling? That's a good idea about the fitting, so you mean instead of putting the wagos in the ceiling, actually store them in the fitting itself ?

As for making the hole bigger, slightly reluctant to in case for whatever reason we want to replace this light with a ceiling rose again later down the line? Would the stud detector/plus knocking to check for non hollow sections, not be enough to safely screw into the ceiling?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The new light, like many, only has a hole big enough for a single cable. I would make that much larger - 20mm diameter eg - and fit a 20mm rubber grommet. Then feed your cables into the light fitting itself. There's plenty of room in there to fit Wagos etc without demolishing chunks of ceiling.

 

[Pilnet101]

Thanks for the advise Taylor, that's a good idea - Id just be a bit worried making things worse whilst trying to widen the hole in the fitting!

So just for my understanding and subject to the size of the hole behind the ceiling rose - is it bad practice, or even worse - dangerous, to have the wago connectors pushed back into the ceiling void? Would wrapping them in insulated electrical tape help?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Any junction must be inside an enclosure. The enclosure needs to gave strain relief clamps.
Plastic tape does not comply. After only a few years it comes unstuck.
Read this thread
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/electrical-insulation-tape.517649/

If you are using Wagos then use a Wago box.

But what’s wrong with cutting a 20mm hole, don’t you have a drill?

 

[rsgaz]

Id just be a bit worried making things worse whilst trying to widen the hole in the fitting!

Simple with a stepped cone drill...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322576078105

 

[Pilnet101]

Thanks again for the help guys... So I've ordered that drill bit as that's quite handy to have! Plus 20mm open grommets...

So same plan as before then, except instead of putting anything in the ceiling void, the waygos and the new flex between them and the new light, will be enclosed in the light fitting itself... Is this right? As it acts as an enclosure? Would it be best taping anything to the fitting base as otherwise the connectors would just be waving about in there?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, just inside the light fitting. Tape not required, ever…
what’s this fixation with tape?

 

[EFLImpudence]

It prevents you touching things you can't get at anyway.

 

[Pilnet101]

Cool.. Thanks again for the help all will give this a go. One last thing, looking at a few tutorial type videos on YouTube, this one caught my eye as it pretty much exactly what I was planning to do:

In this video he uses lever wago connectors and puts them back into the ceiling void, without an enclosure, specifying that you can do this with these types of connectors. Is this just plain wrong and dangerous or are there certain types of connectors which allow you to do this?

 

[Taylortwocities]

It is wrong. All conductors must be enclosed in something.
As I said before, use a Wagobox if you using Wago connectors. Or one of the ready made junction boxes such as Ashley and Hager.
But aren’t you planning to have the Wagos in the fitting?

 

[Pilnet101]

Thanks Taylor, that seems to be the best option. I'll widen the hole in the fitting to 20mm. Just to be completely clear, the actual 3 core flex would be outside the fitting? And I'd just be running the individual t+e wires into the 20mm hole (with an open grommet fitted), connecting them up accordingly to the relevant wagos. I'd just have a single small piece of flex to connect the t+e wires up to the right wagos and the block on the light fitting. Or would I strip the sheath off of the flex and just have small bits of t+e instead?

 

[Pilnet101]

Im only thinking its more the individual t+e cables to go through the hole in the fitting as it doesn't look like there is much slack on the 3 cables coming through the ceiling.

 

[Taylortwocities]

There may be more than you think. Quite often they are cleated just inside the ceiling, you can often gain an inch or two by removing those.

If you must put the junction in the ceiling, this is the sort of junction you'll need to accomodate:
Ashley J804 Maintenance Free Junction Box 20A 4 Terminal