Replacing Linels Cost - Resonable? - Finally got quotes...

[dishman]

I made a thread on the difficulties of finding a builder/window company prepared to install external lintels on a 1930s property. The vast majority would only specify "angle irons". It got to the point where I ended up specifying the required lintel to the builders themselves.

Even then, with seemingly so much work available, I found that many quotes came back very high (pricing themselves out), or just did not really get back to me.

The quotes are still very variable. So I thought I would get some further opinion.

In total there are 5 external leaf lintels required. Two are 2.3m, two are approximately 1.5m and one is 1m.

Builder 1: FMB registered - quote via text
Just for the two 2.3m openings with some repair to brickwork above (some brickwork drop is present) £2000+

Builder 2: FMB registered
Scaffold £288

To carefully remove brickwork from window head to four windows at rear and one to side landing window.To supply and fit new angle iron lintols, catnic or equivalent. To make good to brickwork and render as required

Cost £1635.00 + Vat £327.00 = £1962.00

Total:2250

Builder 3: Recommended by a builder who could not do the work.
Take out soldier course of brickwork above each window.
Clean bricks to re use.Fit single skin lintel to opening
Re lay soldier courses. Where rendered, patch as required ( no painng allowed for )
Take down triangle of brickwork to rear window only where
cracking has occurred and re lay.

Total cost including materials and scaffolding £1350.00 (I'm not sure if this includes VAT) but if not then 1620

This builder is not FMB registered (not that I can find). Nor can I find much information about his company other than a facebook page of completed works (which look good). So I am a bit unsure. He did assure me is has indemnity cover.

-------

To clarify, this is for the external leaf lintel only. There is a solid timber lintel on all windows internally.

So in summary, it has been far more difficult a process finding a builder who is prepared to quote for the work. It seems to fall into a gray-area of not being big enough and not small enough to be worthwhile in time/cost.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

[stuart45]

Are any going to put trays in?

 

[dishman]

Is a cavity tray required / able to be installed with just an external leaf lintel?

There is the option of installing a full cavity lintel on all but one of the windows in question. I'm not sure what this would do to the cost. Would this mean the existing timber lintel is left in situ and the new lintel is slid underneath? Or would it require removal of the existing timber lintel?

 

[stuart45]

If you don't have any trays in now and have no problems it should be OK without them. You can use 18inch Hyload and make sure there is an exit for any water.

 

[Grantx]

Do you think that crack you mention may be attributable to the wooden interior lintels? What's the point of replacing just the outside without the inside when the latter are likely to be buggered?

 

[Doggit]

So, are you getting a dog, and barking yourself, or are you finding crap builders that don't now what they are doing. Alternatively, they are doing it in a manner that they know will fix the problem, and would do it cheaper their way.

It's possible that you've caused more work than necessary, hence the higher than expected quotes, or in telling them how to do their job, they've priced it at a take it or leave it level.

Why are the outer leaf lintels being replaced; was it double glazing installation issues. Are they cavity or single skin walls, as cavity walls would have lintels on both leaves.

 

[dishman]

Thanks @Doggit

I made another post on the subject but it was getting a bit long.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/appropriate-window-lintel-solution.483027/#post-3912512

Put simply - 1930s property. They have solid, and intact timber internal lintels but no outer leaf lintel. Just a soldier course which was originally supported by the structural timber windows. These have rotted to death (they are not even the original timber windows) and need replacing. There has already been some brickwork drop externally when replaced previously.

Que getting quotes from multiple windows companies. They all replied that they would put in an angle iron (yes, the simple uncoated angled steel), job done.

After checking this on the forum, as I always do, the answer was noooooo! Do not use anyone who installs or wants to use an angle iron!!

The problem since has been finding a builder who does not specify an angle iron (and they are not using the term angle iron interchangeably to mean a proper lintel).

When I have found a builder who specified lintels, their quote was way higher than I expected, ie. £2500 for the installation of just two outer leaf lintels.

The internal and external lintel replacement is an option. But on one window it is not due to period plaster coving. But, if the interior lintel is intact I have been told that an exterior lintel is perfectly fine, as long as it is not a crappy angle iron.

So, it got to the point where I felt that I had to tell them what I wanted them to use....which is not what I really want to be doing.

It has all got rather frustrating, as it seems to be a simple thing....but...getting good quotes has been hard....

So the latest scenario are the two quotes above.....

 

[Doggit]

No, you don't want angle iron, but there are steel lintels that are the same (ish) shape, so I can see where they are coming from. They'd obviously leave the bricks in place, and insert the angle iron in under the bricks, and so provide support. But if you want the job done properly, then it's going to be more work, and so more cost.

Obviously, where the bricks are dropping, then they will need to be removed anyway, but where the soldier courses are intact, then a good builder might just be able to support the soldier course, and then get the lintel in place, but it'll be tricky at best, so you pays yer money, and takes your choice I'm afraid. Maybe get the worst ones done for now, and look to find someone that can do the more soldid one cheaper at a later date.

 

[noseall]

Treated (painted) angle iron - 100mm x 100mm x 10mm is fine. Never heard such a load of bo lax.

 

[^woody^]

Angle iron may be good as a hitching rail for the builder to tie his horse to, but not the best thing as an external lintel holding the house up.

 

[noseall]

Angle iron may be good as a hitching rail for the builder to tie his horse to, but not the best thing as an external lintel holding the house up.

Why do architects (and BC) approve and spec' it? I've only ever used it to deal with the external leaf of brickwork and never a whole hoose.

 

[^woody^]

Why do architects (and BC) approve and spec' it? I've only ever used it to deal with the external leaf of brickwork and never a whole hoose.

They could also spec and approve a tin of paint from poundland.

If I was getting quotes off a builder, and his first preference was not for a proper lintel designed for the job, but for a rusty old piece of iron from the scrappy, then he would not be getting his acro's out any time soon.

 

[noseall]

Here's an angle we did earlier.....

Angle2

• noseall
• 11 Oct 2017

Angle1

• noseall
• 11 Oct 2017

Over this bi-fold....

Angle3

• noseall
• 11 Oct 2017

 

[Doggit]

Come on Noseall, there are similarities, but you're talking chalk and cheese; that's a professional job, but someone who says they'll use angle iron, is going to do a quick and dirty job. Out of interest, did you coat the steel before continuing?

 

[noseall]

Out of interest, did you coat the steel before continuing?

Of course.
It would have made the welder angry if we had done it prior to him visiting.