Responsibility for Asbestos

[Lower]

Because it is relevent

And its not s a simple case of "your duties as a domestic client are automatically transferred to the contractor or principal contractor" and ths clients responsibility ending. Nor is it just a simple case of the contractor accepting liability. The client still has responsibilities under CDM.

You've obviously just read a few lines on the HSE website, so your ignorance is understandable.

The only good thing in the OP's favour is that the HSE most likely don't have the time or resources to do anything about it, and even more probablly can't be bothered to interpret their own badly written guidance.

But the most significant thing, is the risk not from the HSE, but from one of those workers going to a no-win no-fee solicitor, claiming exposure to ACM and then winning a tidy sum all because the OP client failed to ensure the necessary safety procedures were in place, making the site de facto unsafe and he liable as the client.

I disagree. There is theoretical application of CDM and practical on a domestic basis. Practical application when doing a renovation in small steps is that as the home owner its largely irrelevant.

 

[noseall]

is that as the home owner its largely irrelevant.

WTF? The homeowner is the owner of the hazardous material. It is the homeowner that exposing varying tradesmen to hazardous material, that he invited in to do work in his home.

Do you think the homeowner automatically shifts responsibility to Peter the painter when he invites him in to paint the airing cupboard?

 

[kazuya]

round here ya ring the council, they drop off bags, you double bag the "asbestos", seal the bags with tape
ring the council and tell them its ready, they then collect it
£125 last time i did it

 

[oldbutnotdead]

WTF? The homeowner is the owner of the hazardous material. It is the homeowner that exposing varying tradesmen to hazardous material, that he invited in to do work in his home.

Do you think the homeowner automatically shifts responsibility to Peter the painter when he invites him in to paint the airing cupboard?

Pretty much http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/faq.htm#domestic-properties
Key phrase- 'In owner-occupied domestic properties, the owners are not legally responsible for risks to contractors from asbestos, as the owners themselves are not engaged in any work activity.'
So as the homeowner, as long as you haven't been DIY-ing all over the place you have no liability under the law. Different matter if you yourself have been doing things...

 

[noseall]

'In owner-occupied domestic properties, the owners are not legally responsible for risks to contractors from asbestos

No, but the homeowner is responsible for the asbestos and is what this thread is about.

 

[^woody^]

The home owner is the "Client" under CDM and as such has all the client responsibilities that come with the CDM regulations.

CDM was intended to bring all parties involved in a construction project together to benefit workers and building users. Everyone involved shares a responsibility and has a duty to site safety under these regulations.

Yes much of the specialist knowledge does have to come from the contractors and professionals who would be the best people to deal with such things, but that still leaves an over-arching duty for the client to ensure that all those things are in place and continuously updated.

The saving grace for domestic clients is that the latest CDM regulations have been so badly written and is full of vagueness that it's difficult for many people to interpret. The HSE previously published approved guidance (ACOP) for past incarnations of these regulations. They have not done so this time even after two years. Some say that's because they don't have a clue themselves.

My view is that CDM was only bought in to domestic work for tax purposes in an attempt to close down the black economy, not specifically for safety reasons.

 

[Lower]

The home owner is the "Client" under CDM and as such has all the client responsibilities that come with the CDM regulations.

CDM was intended to bring all parties involved in a construction project together to benefit workers and building users. Everyone involved shares a responsibility and has a duty to site safety under these regulations.

Yes much of the specialist knowledge does have to come from the contractors and professionals who would be the best people to deal with such things, but that still leaves an over-arching duty for the client to ensure that all those things are in place and continuously updated.

The saving grace for domestic clients is that the latest CDM regulations have been so badly written and is full of vagueness that it's difficult for many people to interpret. The HSE previously published approved guidance (ACOP) for past incarnations of these regulations. They have not done so this time even after two years. Some say that's because they don't have a clue themselves.

My view is that CDM was only bought in to domestic work for tax purposes in an attempt to close down the black economy, not specifically for safety reasons.

We do a lot of work under CDM regs and often act as the principal designer, principal contractor, main contractor or any combination of these so i have plenty of experience of CDM. Slightly different for us though as we're a machine builder and installer rather than a standard building contractor which means we're often pushing CDM further than it was really designed for.

But trying to apply CDM logic in a domestic environment just isn't practicable. It might be if you're doing a whole build from scratch, but not when you're doing scattered bits of remedial work.

 

[Lower]

WTF? The homeowner is the owner of the hazardous material. It is the homeowner that exposing varying tradesmen to hazardous material, that he invited in to do work in his home.

Do you think the homeowner automatically shifts responsibility to Peter the painter when he invites him in to paint the airing cupboard?

That's not what i meant. I was referring to CDM specifially.

However, the reality is that unless it becomes law that every house has to have a asbestos survey, tradesmen are going to have to have the understanding of what might and might not be asbestos so that they can protect themselves from inadvertent exposure caused by homeowners asking them to do work without knowledge of where there is asbestos in their homes.

Although we work in a commercial environment, we still do asbestos awareness training with all our engineers for the same reason.