Retraining as an Electrician

[Weavertronix]

I believe the 'conventional' '40-something leaving IT to become an electrician' route is:

1. Decide how to spend the £50k you'll be earning working for yourself.

2. Think up a name for your company.

3. Buy around £3k of tools, many of which you'll never use.

4. Pay a training company around £5k for a domestic installer short (around 6 weeks) course which they tell you will do everything you want.

5. Buy a van and get it signwritten (£3k+)

6. Join a "competent person" scheme using work you've done on your house as an assessment piece (around £400 per year).

7. Go out into the big wide world to put plugs on table lamps for old ladies.

8. Realise you haven't got a clue what you're doing, the course you paid £5k for didn't teach you anything, and offer to work for a time-served sparky to gain some experience.

9. Offer to work for free for the experience because nobody wants to employ a 40-something with no experience or real qualifications.

10. Go back to working in IT at least £12k lighter.


That might sound pessimistic but that's the reality. I spent 3 years training as an electrician when I was in my late 20s and managed to 'break into' the trade before the credit crunch, but nowadays there are more experienced electricians looking for work than there are jobs, and more 40-something former IT workers with no electrical experience looking for work than you can shake a stick at.

Prove me wrong....

 

[Monkeh]

You've got a good point there. My brother-in-law tried to move to kitchen fitting (yeah yeah.. he's good at what he does, not a cowboy), spend a load of money getting himself sorted for the electrical side of it.. and couldn't find any work. Back to IT he went.

 

[stevebamford]

I believe the 'conventional' '40-something leaving IT to become an electrician' route is:

1. Decide how to spend the £50k you'll be earning working for yourself.

2. Think up a name for your company.

3. Buy around £3k of tools, many of which you'll never use.

4. Pay a training company around £5k for a domestic installer short (around 6 weeks) course which they tell you will do everything you want.

5. Buy a van and get it signwritten (£3k+)

6. Join a "competent person" scheme using work you've done on your house as an assessment piece (around £400 per year).

7. Go out into the big wide world to put plugs on table lamps for old ladies.

8. Realise you haven't got a clue what you're doing, the course you paid £5k for didn't teach you anything, and offer to work for a time-served sparky to gain some experience.

9. Offer to work for free for the experience because nobody wants to employ a 40-something with no experience or real qualifications.

10. Go back to working in IT at least £12k lighter.


That might sound pessimistic but that's the reality. I spent 3 years training as an electrician when I was in my late 20s and managed to 'break into' the trade before the credit crunch, but nowadays there are more experienced electricians looking for work than there are jobs, and more 40-something former IT workers with no electrical experience looking for work than you can shake a stick at.

Prove me wrong....

Oooooh theres a challenge !

1) On a yacht !
2) Hmmmm "Shocking Electrics" maybe
3) Yeah yeah but can i buy some big power drills
4) Can't you just buy the book and do the exam (£100?)
5) Hmmm - I have my trusty Ford Focus !
6) Is that the NCEIC or whatever it is called ?
7) Yeahhhh new plug = £100 ? couple of those a day and i'll be sorted !
8) Nah - you mean get a special mention on 'Rogue Traders'
9) Hmmmm could always do some shadowing for a while ?
10) Always an option but at least I'd have tried ??

Come on guys - is it really that hard ? Has nobody done this and a) made a success of it and b) enjoyed it ?

 

[1john]

I expect alot have tried, and while they were at it, they have driven the trade prices down and everyone has suffered for their imcompetance and ignorance in thinking that because the have 'life experience' they can house bash after a 5 day wonder boy course. On the plus side, the guys selling vans, test equipment and power tools are benefitting for the mean time.

 

[Weavertronix]

Those weren't really questions or obsticles to overcome, more how other people have tried and failed.

It sounds like what you want to do is cash in on your perception that people are willing to pay a fortune to someone who calls themself an electrician, for going around doing basic electrics which people could DIY themself for free, when you haven't got a clue what you're doing yourself.

My questions to you are:
1. If there is that much work around, why are so many experienced electricians out of work?

2. If it is that easy, why is everyone saying it isn't?

3. Why would anyone pay over the odds for an unqualified cowboy who needs a DIY forum to tell him how to do the most basic electrical tasks, when they could DIY it themself for free?

You seem hellbent on giving it a go anyway, but don't say you haven't been warned.

 

[stevebamford]

Those weren't really questions or obsticles to overcome, more how other people have tried and failed.

It sounds like what you want to do is cash in on your perception that people are willing to pay a fortune to someone who calls themself an electrician, for going around doing basic electrics which people could DIY themself for free, when you haven't got a clue what you're doing yourself.

My questions to you are:
1. If there is that much work around, why are so many experienced electricians out of work?

2. If it is that easy, why is everyone saying it isn't?

3. Why would anyone pay over the odds for an unqualified cowboy who needs a DIY forum to tell him how to do the most basic electrical tasks, when they could DIY it themself for free?

You seem hellbent on giving it a go anyway, but don't say you haven't been warned.

Thats pretty harsh Weavertronix. Having a bad day ?

I don't believe I've mentioned my earnings expectations-I have asked the question so I'd know what I'd expect to earn. How would I be 'cashing in' when I'd be earning less than I currently do ?

1) The only two electricians I know personally have more work than they know what to do with

2) I never said it was easy

3) Unqualified cowboy ? moi ? Again - thats why I'm asking the question ? What do I need to do to get qualified ?

 

[Weavertronix]

I don't think that was particularly harsh at all, but you asked questions, people gave answers and you ignored them - you were asking about getting the bare minimum of bits of paper to be legal, and asking how hard could it possibly be? - Suggesting you thought it would be easy.

A 'cowboy' could be defined as either someone who deliberately sets out to rip people off, or someone who thinks they're doing a good job but is recklessly incompetent. The questions you have asked in other threads on this forum are the sort of things I would expect a DIYer (amateur) to ask, rather than someone who considers themself to be one exam away from being a qualified professional. Bear in mind very few cowboys actually consider themselves to be cowboys.

If you are serious about becoming an electrician you would need to complete the new C&G 2357 while working alongside a qualified electrician, which will take around 3 years; if you personally know two electricians with more work than they know what to do with, perhaps you could work with one of them?
(Do they actually have more work than they know what to do with, or do they just say that when you ask them?)

Once you have passed the 2357 you can take the C&G 2382 wiring regulations (only a 1 day course) and the C&G 2391 testing and inspection (10 weeks). After that you will be fully qualified!

 

[stevebamford]

so now I'm planning to rip people off ? harsh again methinks

Yeah I might get some work with the guys I know. The only problem would be a language one as my Polish isn't so hot. Might give it a go though

So what does the 2357 cover then? Is there a syllabus online somewhere ?

 

[Risteard]

In fairness 2391-10 is not necessary to be qualified. Level 3 Technical Certificate, AM2 and NVQ Level 3 is (or just 2357 and AM2 when this comes out).

2391-10 is required for Approved Electrician grading.

 

[maguire]

good god he's only 43 I am 61 next month and I am still crawiling around in attics and cellars, mostly fault finding so a lot of crawling around, maybe office work is not the toughest so I suggest buy a bike get out on it and canvas for work whilst getting fit problem(s) solved

 

[flameport]

Full details on the 2357 are not available yet, since it is a new qualification to replace the existing ones.
Some information here: http://www.cityandguilds.com/44902.html

4) Can't you just buy the book and do the exam (£100?)

Not clear which exam you mean, but you can certainly do the 2382 exam only. However this on it's own will be useless, as it just proves you can look up answers in a book (BS7671).
BS7671 itself is a techinical reference document, and contains nothing about how to actually do domestic electrical work.

Even if you do the proper course (3 years+), you will find it very difficult to get work experience, since most firms do not want to waste their money and time training someone who will then leave and set up on their own.

 

[sparkybird]

Oh dear, it's all doom and gloom here... maybe rightly, but I say if you really want to do it, then go for it - you can always go back to what you were doing and life's too short to think "what if"!

On a plus side, I retrained (not from IT) when I was in my late 30's and haven't regrets. Granted I didn't start up in a recession, but I've not been short of work. I think that my other job provided me with skills which have helped me eg communication, dealing paperwork etc.

I like being self employed and once I get too old to be crawling around in lofts (I've got a few years to go before I catch up with maguire!) can see me going into teaching, or lighting design or running the office/estimating for another sparks - or maybe all of these!

I would say that C and G is the way to go for qualifications- not these get rich quick training courses.

Good luck with whatever you decide

SB

 

[1john]

This is all pointless IMO, said person is only going to gain work by undercutting conventioanlly trained sparks, so they suffer and the industry gets devalued and after under cutting them, take twice as long therefore earning even less, in the mean time people get a bad perception of the industry as a whole, beleive that genuine contractors are charging too much and prob DIY any further work themselves.

 

[dingbat]

Here we go.

I meet many apprentice-trained electricians. I also meet many people looking to re-train, often from a different technical discipline.

There are very good, good and bad in both batches but the bad sparks are far and away more dangerous than the re-trainers.

Why? You try telling a 40-year, apprentice-trained electrician that virtually all he knows has always been wrong.

Consider the standard route for the mediocre spark:
Spend most days becoming an expert at very few manual skills while being fobbed off by an indifferent supervisor whenever you show an interest.
Go to college on the 'day-off' system, having had a skinful the night before, so you spend the day half-asleep, in the company of a bunch of testosterone-laden teenage morons just like yourself. (ALL young men are morons, by the way, not just apprentices)
Work for twenty or more years, cards-in, never questioning what you were taught way back, never taking any notice of changes in the industry and never updating your ancient qualifications, whilst perfecting the art of getting away as early as possible on every occasion.
On being made redundant, decide to go it alone and discover that what you know means nothing out there, that you can't run a business and that you have very few customer-facing skills.
Conclude that you are being undercut by ingénues from other industries and spend a lot of time telling this to everybody who will listen.
Hear the same myths spouted straight-back-at-ya by folks with the same career progressions as yourself.
Blame it all on Part P and label all your competition 'five-day-wonders'.

In contrast, the bad re-trainer quickly gets out of his depth and abandons his plans, while the good ones quickly - far more quickly than the sparks in my experience - grasp both what they understand and what they have to work on. They then work on it and combine this new knowledge and skillset with what they already brought to the table and within a very short time frame often become multi-skilled, perfectly competent installers in their chosen field.

The moral? If you work at it - and it isn't exactly rocket surgery - then you can acquire the necessary knowledge and skills to carry out domestic installations work pretty quickly. (The only reason it takes so long to train apprentices is because they start as children!) Then it's up to you where you want to take your development.

(The few good sparks, by the way, are very, very good.)

 

[Weavertronix]

I didn't suggest you were deliberately planning to rip people off, but by going to work on people's houses with little practical experience, assuming the little knowlege you already have is all you will ever need, and you just need to do a quick test as a formality, you could be unwittingly ripping people off by providing a substandard, even potentially dangerous service.

2357 syllabus:
http://www.electricalqualifications.co.uk/cityandguilds2357.php
It doesn't tell you exactly what you'll be doing but it gives a vague guide. It should cover topics such as cable calcs, reactance, legislation, earthing systems, inspection and testing, etc and more importantly teaches you why things are done as opposed to "this wire goes here".

Dingbat has a point in that there are a lot of bad time served sparks out there who won't let you tell them any different because they've done it their whole working lives. I would say this is mainly down to attitude - I trained as an adult and most of the guys in my group were there because they wanted to be and paid for the course themselves so put in the effort; conversely most of the modern apprentices (school leavers) were there because their parents made them, didn't have to pay anything for the course, and couldn't care less.

In short a 'good electrician' is more likely to be someone who wants to be, rather than someone who 'fell' into the job, or someone who is only doing it because they have heard there's good money in it.