The company is registered.
Ring main measures 600R
- Thread starter brackers99
- Start date
The company is registered.
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I would contact his reg body and complain if he does not come back and sort out the mess. He should be able to do it. If he cannot, he should arrange for another to help him at his cost.
You should not have to be doing this. ( i mean researching the net for answers)
You have hired someone to take care of the problem, ask him to oblige otherwise you will be forced to lodge a complaint.
Martin
You should not have to be doing this. ( i mean researching the net for answers)
You have hired someone to take care of the problem, ask him to oblige otherwise you will be forced to lodge a complaint.
Martin
Not looking forward to using the shower in the morning, but will be getting this sorted asap.
As the ring circuit appears to show a break, am I right in thinking that the MCB should trip if the cables now get overloaded.
As the ring circuit appears to show a break, am I right in thinking that the MCB should trip if the cables now get overloaded.
NO.
That's the problem with a broken ring. 2.5mm twin & earth is not rated to 32A. When a ring is installed, it is deemed sufficient for the cable to be rated to carry 20A (2.5 T&E buried in an insulated wall is rated to 20A, 23A in conduit on the surface and 27A clipped direct on the surface) - the ring can then be protected at 32A as there will be two cable runs to each socket etc. However with a broken ring it is possible to draw 32A on a cable only good for 20A without the MCB tripping. Not good. Is there definitely no RCD or ELCB of any kind before your new CU? If so, this is absolutely appalling. As I said, this has been a very basic requirement of TT installations for years and years and years. It is totally against BS7671 to have ANY circuits unRCD-protected in a TT setup. How on earth your 'electrician' could have fitted a split load CU with nonRCD circuits is beyond me. This is a major and breach of a very basic requirement, and is lethal under basic fault conditions.
Get it sorted ASAP, then take the 'electrician' to the cleaners. Who knows how many other houses this guy has left it a similar state?
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Okay thanks to everones help on here, the broken ring main that I had has been found.
The electrician came back and couldn't understand why it was measuring a break as his certificate records good end to end measurements? Must be something I had done, but I know I hadn't.
I removed one ring wire from the CU at a time and found certain sockets were working. I then unhooked the other live wire from the ring and was able to work out the area to work in.
Removed all the furniture, rolled back carpet and lifted floor boards. Found lots of bodgery by the previous house owners. They had broken into the ring, but did not complete the break. I have now completed the ring and carefully checked all is good.
Now for my checks, I have removed all appliances from the ring and these are the end to end values I get at the Cu:
R1=0.75, Rn=0.7 and R2=0.8ohms
Are these values okay?
I have also put the ring back on the RCD protected side and have suffered no trips so far.
Thanks
The electrician came back and couldn't understand why it was measuring a break as his certificate records good end to end measurements? Must be something I had done, but I know I hadn't.
I removed one ring wire from the CU at a time and found certain sockets were working. I then unhooked the other live wire from the ring and was able to work out the area to work in.
Removed all the furniture, rolled back carpet and lifted floor boards. Found lots of bodgery by the previous house owners. They had broken into the ring, but did not complete the break. I have now completed the ring and carefully checked all is good.
Now for my checks, I have removed all appliances from the ring and these are the end to end values I get at the Cu:
R1=0.75, Rn=0.7 and R2=0.8ohms
Are these values okay?
I have also put the ring back on the RCD protected side and have suffered no trips so far.
Thanks
Then right now your installation is very dangerous, as any earth fault on the non-RCD circuits is very unlikely to pass enough current to operate the MCB. This will lead to ALL exposed metal conductive parts in the house becoming live, even if they aren't part of the faulty circuit.
The 'electrician' shouldn't have done any of this work without first ensuring main PEBs were in place, making you aware of the fact they are necessary and not actually fitting them is not acceptable. I assume this is what's happened?
In any case, the guy who fitted that CU for you is clearly incompetent. I would be tempted to call a more reputable spark, have them carry out a Periodic Inspection Report, and make sure all the faults with his work are listed. You then have something you can submit to his certification scheme provider, if any, along with trading standards, and whoever else might care to listen.
It's irrelevant, you can't have non-RCD protected circuits on your TT supply. Although many others have already told you this and it seems to be falling on deaf ears; your spark is either incompetent or just doesn't care, but either way, this situation needs to be sorted ASAP by someone competent. Again, same goes for the PEBs.
Your spark doesn't do a lot for his money does he........
He doesn't exist.
The advice given on here has not fallen on deaf ears and I have arranged for another spark to visit asap.
In the mean time, I am hoping I have solved the broken ring as the electrician was scratching his head and said he would get back to me. He never has and doesn't answer my calls.
Do the end to end readings that I have shown above, look like the ring circuit is now good?
I have put all circuits under RCD prtection.
The upstairs lighting, I have put on the downstairs socket ring and vice versa. Is this also correct as I wanted to still have light if an RCD tripped. The electrician put them on the non-RCD side to prevent the lights tripping.
There is no electricity company isolator and the seal had been cut by the electrician to remove the 100A fuse, which is illegal, but from what I have read on these forums, appears to be something that is done. If I contact the electricity company to fit an isolator, does the isolator contain an RCD unit also, or is an RCD before the consumer unit somthing I need to get an electrician to fit?
Thanks
He doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
Nearly £700 spent, and very annoyed.
You really need to be reporting him to his scheme provider and trading standards as his workmanship is shoddy at best. I'm guessing he never tested the rings properly in the first place or he should have found broken/cross connected rings.Nearly £700 spent, and very annoyed.
Anyhoo, your new continuity figures sound like they chould be ok - they are within the requirements but obviously we don't know how long the ring is.
Out of interest - what did the electrician record these figures as on your original certificate? Are these very different to the results you now have?
Whatever else you now do, make sure that the entire installation is RCD protected.
A number of respondents have made this assertion, which is actually untrue, although it is the only practicable way to comply for most installations.
See 411.5.2 and the footnote to table 41.1
This is just as it has been for many years.
(For info, it is also not expressly stated that a RCD main switch must be a delayed-action, 'S' type RCD, nor that such device should be 100mA)
Thanks Bongos. As for reporting the electrician, myself and my family would be in even greater danger of death than that caused by the electrics! Just sooner get it sorted and not use the company's services again.You really need to be reporting him to his scheme provider and trading standards as his workmanship is shoddy at best. I'm guessing he never tested the rings properly in the first place or he should have found broken/cross connected rings.Nearly £700 spent, and very annoyed.
Anyhoo, your new continuity figures sound like they chould be ok - they are within the requirements but obviously we don't know how long the ring is.
Out of interest - what did the electrician record these figures as on your original certificate? Are these very different to the results you now have?
Whatever else you now do, make sure that the entire installation is RCD protected.
Looking through the Electricians Guide to Building Regs and the red 17th edition books, I cannot see any way that the results could be recorded incorrectly due to the number of tests involved. The break in the ring is not caused by a cable becoming disconnected, but as the result of a previous person not continuing the ring correctly after an extension had been built in the past.
Not sure how long the ring is, but it serves the whole upstairs of a large 4 bed with an area of about 70m2.
The electricians results were R1= 0.32, R2= 0.34, R2= 0.66 all slightly lower, but not sure how he got them.
The good thing is, that we have had no trips. Also another electrician is coming next week to double check everything and fit further earths as necessary.
To me your readings are off...
r1 should be about the same as rn,,, but r2 should be 1.666 x r1 for a 2.5/1.5 T&E ring AND 2.5 x r1 for a 2.5/1.0 T&E ring
You should really be reporting this contractor to their body,, just imagine what they are doing in other peoples houses!
r1 should be about the same as rn,,, but r2 should be 1.666 x r1 for a 2.5/1.5 T&E ring AND 2.5 x r1 for a 2.5/1.0 T&E ring
You should really be reporting this contractor to their body,, just imagine what they are doing in other peoples houses!
¿Que?
That's simple.
You don't do the tests, you make up the results and you write them on the schedule of results.
And would have shown up if the proper tests had been done.
So either it did not show up because the tests were not done, and the "electrician" falsified the test results, or it did show up but the "electrician" decided it was too much bother to deal with so he pretended all was well and falsified the test results.
Either way he needs to be stepped on.
He invented them.
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