This is a question that has probably been asked a 1000 times on here!! I am currently trying to sell a 4 bed detached house built 1901, and unfortunately 3 times a sale has broken down because of the comments of surveyors on damp. When I brought the house 10 yrs ago it had already been treated for damp (holes drilled in outside/inside walls) Our surveyor recommended us to have them re injected, which we did by a new firm (with a 30yr guarantee) In the last 3 months I have had 3 independent surveyors tell me the DPC has failed. I have had the DPC company out several times only to be told that it is a condensation problem. I have tide marks running along inside walls in the hall, 2 walls in the dining room and 2 walls in the lounge. The one internal wall in the lounge, after stripping the wallpaper, has a saturated tied mark rising from the skirting to about 12 inches, the rest of the wall seems dry. The dpc company has now taken a plaster and brick sample to be tested. I don't appear to have any problems above a metre on the walls. Any advice would be appreciated
Rising Damp or Condensation
- Thread starter andy89
- Start date
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Do you have condensation problems elsewhere in the house...windows etc.? Does the house have a cellar? Are the walls solid stone? What is the ventilation like under the property...under the floors? Has the damp problem got worse since you lived there? Have you upgraded insulation, windows etc since living there?
Did the problem get worse after the latest bout if DPC? Or just no better than before?
From your description it does sound more likely to be rising damp and the company may just be trying to fob you off to get out of making good if their attempt has not worked. No harm in checking other possibilities though.
Did the problem get worse after the latest bout if DPC? Or just no better than before?
From your description it does sound more likely to be rising damp and the company may just be trying to fob you off to get out of making good if their attempt has not worked. No harm in checking other possibilities though.
Hi andy
Measure your problem and demonstrate the reason and cause, how it's normal.
You can only manage damp, rebuilding will rectify things.
Most 1900 year houses are damp and either are viable with temperature or ventilation provision.
Hi again I have just reread your post and yes it does seem like you have problems.
Hydroscopic water penetration will only rise <1.5m. So you have it.
I am assuming that the property is on ground level.
Old damproving drilled the brick itself. Rubbish what the point of drilling a engineering brick to stop the damp which is able to pass via the mortar.
Your recent dampproofing injected the motar joints with a passive slow soaking of silicone. Good or shall i say better but no panacea. You must hit all motar joints. both sides.
My original point was to tell you how you can record the temperature and humidity via a usb stick over a period of time. unlimited in fact.
Once read from your laptop you can read all the actual temperatures and humidity even to the prediction of mould growth in these prevailing conditions.
In conclusion you have to press the recent damp proof company and spend money and time and take them to court. It may be you were told to tank and drain the property. The only foolproof way on damp "separation". At best you can get some of your money back.
ask a company for a quote on a plastic sheet dimple warm tanking system. Ignore all warranties as they all point back to you.
Good luck
Tanking plastic sheets
Silicone only dispels water and moves it along the crack void. Push it next door.
Forgot to say surveyors acting for anybody will follow orders for the most ridiculous reasons.
One even said my 2 bed flat city center had no market. 1234567891012345678910 It meant a lot to me, not the flat The fxxxing money.
Measure your problem and demonstrate the reason and cause, how it's normal.
You can only manage damp, rebuilding will rectify things.
Most 1900 year houses are damp and either are viable with temperature or ventilation provision.
Hi again I have just reread your post and yes it does seem like you have problems.
Hydroscopic water penetration will only rise <1.5m. So you have it.
I am assuming that the property is on ground level.
Old damproving drilled the brick itself. Rubbish what the point of drilling a engineering brick to stop the damp which is able to pass via the mortar.
Your recent dampproofing injected the motar joints with a passive slow soaking of silicone. Good or shall i say better but no panacea. You must hit all motar joints. both sides.
My original point was to tell you how you can record the temperature and humidity via a usb stick over a period of time. unlimited in fact.
Once read from your laptop you can read all the actual temperatures and humidity even to the prediction of mould growth in these prevailing conditions.
In conclusion you have to press the recent damp proof company and spend money and time and take them to court. It may be you were told to tank and drain the property. The only foolproof way on damp "separation". At best you can get some of your money back.
ask a company for a quote on a plastic sheet dimple warm tanking system. Ignore all warranties as they all point back to you.
Good luck
Tanking plastic sheets
Silicone only dispels water and moves it along the crack void. Push it next door.
Forgot to say surveyors acting for anybody will follow orders for the most ridiculous reasons.
One even said my 2 bed flat city center had no market. 1234567891012345678910 It meant a lot to me, not the flat The fxxxing money.
Walls are solid, no cavity. Floating wooden floor. Also added extra air bricks to outside walls. No cellar. Have noticed condensation when cooking Sunday roast (lots of pans on at the same time). The DPC surveyor was here earlier. Reading just above the skirting was red, about 2 feet orange and 3 feet just about recording green but he didn't go any higher. From reading the description of rising damp, penetrating damp and condensation it feels like there is a problem with the DPC. Tide marks, splitting paint and discolouration all at about 2 feet above floor level and no signs at higher levels. However DPC man still insists problem is condensation. Having read previous posts on this subject there seems to be a real divide in opinions.
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Did you pay by credit card?
The supplier will have the costs removed if a dispute is raised.
This may help focus the minds.
The supplier will have the costs removed if a dispute is raised.
This may help focus the minds.
Putting aside any arguments about the effectiviness of electrical moisture meters on site, moisture meters only tell you the surface moisture content, which can only tell you it's damp, not whether it's rising damp or condensation, you need to take a core reading which you say the DPC man has done?
If it is a 1900 solid wall construction, you will have problems with condensation unless you have generous ventilation and good heating, personally I would only consider rising damp if you have both of those, and the problem still persists, even then.......
Electrical moisture meters are calibrated to read the moisture content of wood only so are useless on masonry. Sonic meters are better but must still be interpreted by somebody who knows what they are doing. The majority of dampness found on the type of walls you describe is condensation. So called surveyors see tide marks and apparent dampness at the base of walls and jump to the rising damp conclusion. Mostly they are wrong. Condensation will occur at the base of walls simply because that is where the wall is coldest. But it is also true that damp walls are colder than dry so that can also cause condensation. (in other words you might have a dual problem - damp walls which in turn cause condensation) To be sure you need to properly measure the internal environment and wall temperatures. Ideally you should also properly measure the moisture content of the masonry with a carbide meter, but you would need to find a (proper) surveyor who has one and knows how to use it. You could also analyse the salts in the wall. Certain sulphates, nitrates, chlorides etc. are only found in the ground so if they are found on the internal wall surface you know the moisture originated from the ground. If not you know it didn't. You can buy a salts kit yourself for about fifty quid.
I am now starting to wonder whether it is condensation. the worst offending wall is in the room closest to the kitchen. It is this wall the DPC man has taken a plaster and brick sample. Where do you start when condensation is the problem? The house is large and has always been difficult to heat in the winter. Is it worth putting air bricks and internal vents in the rooms most effected?
It also has to be heated properly as well. Granted not easy today with 9" solid walls, but in the old days with cheap coal and open fires, not so much of a problem.
And of course open fires allowed huge ventilation and continuous air change.
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I have had similar issues to you in the past in my stone built 2ft thick solid walled house. real bad damp downstairs in some rooms that i thought was rising damp. after several companies tried to sell me injection would solve it a few people and lots of research said first try ventilation so thats what i did.
I fitted a positive air ventilation system http://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/-P...ilation.html?gclid=CIXA1eWErbsCFYbHtAodvh4ABw
not the one above but a similar one called nuaire.
I also fitted better kitchen extraction for cooking to reduce the amount of steam from pots and pans.
what I also found was two walls that were the worst were actualy being made damp by the window sills in the upper floor leaking and then making the loer wall downstairs very wet.
Not a solution as such just something to consider.
I fitted a positive air ventilation system http://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/-P...ilation.html?gclid=CIXA1eWErbsCFYbHtAodvh4ABw
not the one above but a similar one called nuaire.
I also fitted better kitchen extraction for cooking to reduce the amount of steam from pots and pans.
what I also found was two walls that were the worst were actualy being made damp by the window sills in the upper floor leaking and then making the loer wall downstairs very wet.
Not a solution as such just something to consider.
If it is the case that you suspect internally generated condensation then have a look at this recent thread. Lots of advice there.
//www.diynot.com/forums/building/condensation.386014/
If you concentrate on eliminating damp caused by human factors, then it will be much easier to diagnose any other cause.
But basically, good ventilation (not necessarily cold drafts) and a good, consistent well regulated heating regime. You need to get air moving and warm the whole house evenly.
In an old house (especially one that has been insulated to modern standards...upvc....cavity walls etc.) you may get very focus cold spots and this is where the condensation will form.
These articles have very good advice/information. The first one is especially informative and has other good links/information pages too.
http://www.1stassociated.co.uk/condensation-cold-bridging.asp
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Condensation and Mould.pdf
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/05/10103020/30224
//www.diynot.com/forums/building/condensation.386014/
If you concentrate on eliminating damp caused by human factors, then it will be much easier to diagnose any other cause.
But basically, good ventilation (not necessarily cold drafts) and a good, consistent well regulated heating regime. You need to get air moving and warm the whole house evenly.
In an old house (especially one that has been insulated to modern standards...upvc....cavity walls etc.) you may get very focus cold spots and this is where the condensation will form.
These articles have very good advice/information. The first one is especially informative and has other good links/information pages too.
http://www.1stassociated.co.uk/condensation-cold-bridging.asp
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Condensation and Mould.pdf
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/05/10103020/30224
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