Safely adding a second pendant from one rose

[tmandrews]

Hey there,

I've seen some really helpful advice here and figured it couldn't hurt to hear your thoughts on my situation.

I'm looking to add a second, 'fake' rose next to an existing one, giving me two pendants above the table. My thinking so far is to run a parallel connection from the existing rose across the ceiling to a fake rose for the second pendant.

My research so far has given me a couple of pointers. First, the existing rose will be replaced with an Ashley J501 JB which will be tucked into the recess for later access. I believe this complies with regulations..?
The Live and Neutral from the JB will then go down into a rose (my current favourite, especially with that clamp). To get a second pendant wired, I was thinking these wires would be 'split off' using terminal connections/chock blocks (? ) and fed through a drilled hole in the side of that rose. I'd be using lighting cable for this, and probably using a copper pipe to make it aesthetically pleasing, shaby chic and all that. About 1m away this second wire gets fed into the second, fake rose with a drilled hole in the side again, where it simply feeds down to the second pendant. The clamps on the rose should keep the tension off the connections.

My apologies for the complicated explanation; I hope you could follow. Here's a diagram of what I want to achieve if it helps:

link to diagram

I'd be grateful for any thoughts on the rationality behind this and any glaring or potential mistakes that I should be aware of.

Thankfully I know enough now to know that I'm not able to do this on my own. I'm just checking the feasibility of the project before getting a sparky in to take a look.

Many thanks in advance!
tmandrews

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

No need for any junctions, but there is a requirement for an earth!

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 19 Nov 2011
• 5

 

[AndyPRK]

If it were me I would remove a little bit if the ceiling plaster to route the cable behind the rose.

And not fit the junction box.

I assume you can't get access to the ceiling from above

EDIT now looked at your link.
Humm you want to use some conduit between the lights.
And wires can be joined in that new fitting.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Humm you want to use some conduit between the lights.

or trunking or if you have something about you install in the void.

 

[AndyPRK]

Have you clicked the link?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Have you clicked the link?

Looks the same as diagram posted!
Not sure what the fittings look like, can I assume that maybe they are attached to conduit boxes?

 

[securespark]

If you are lucky and the joists go the right way, you could fish the new cable from the new position towards the existing.

Then use a coathanger with a small loop on the end to hook it out of the void where the existing cables are.

Or use cable rods if you can get hold of them.

 

[tmandrews]

Thanks for your replies!

PrenticeBoy - good point, I'll extend the earth to the lamps using three-core cable.
Andy - I'm not keen to route the cable above the ceiling as I don't have access from above.

The conduit between the roses will be a better looking version of PVC cable trunking. Thinking of using copper pipe, but that's by the by. This will fit into drilled holes in the roses to allow the wiring to pass through.

Would using terminal blocks to split the lamp wires in the rose be appropriate?
Does the Ashley JB meet regulation requirements?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Back tracking and looking at your link
It may be possible to use a couple of these, connected by a length of this
The metal will require to be earthed to the CPC.
Most insulated connectors will be okay within the ceiling rose
If you were to make joints within an inaccessible location(not something I would recommend if you can draw cables to rose), then a BS5377-MF junction is a method that meets requirements, but the one you have linked is not to this standard.
But this one is http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ804.html

 

[tmandrews]

Hey all.

I just wanted to follow up on this post with the results.

Turns out the rose only had a switched live and neutral running to it, so installing a junction box wasn't necessary (and would have been trickier than initially thought anyway!). My lesson learnt so far: investigate what you've actually got to work with before posting questions on forums.

With some capable help I was able to install two new roses, a copper pipe as a conduit between them, with the wiring between them all done correctly, and have it working before sundown. Here's a pic of the result:
http://imgur.com/oEPrNhY

Thanks again for your help.
tma

 

[endecotp]

Turns out the rose only had a switched live and neutral running to it

So all that exposed metal is not earthed, then?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It may be possible to use a couple of these, connected by a length of this

I'm sure it would have been, but he'd also have needed one of these

and possibly a pipe vice.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

]the wiring between them all done correctly

Turns out the rose only had a switched live and neutral running to it

Should have had an earth as well, even if the roses and the lights are double-insulated.

If they are not then you have made something potentially lethal.


Is there an earth at your light switches? Are they plastic? Is there an earth anywhere in your lighting circuit?

 

[AndyPRK]

Turns out the rose only had a switched live and neutral running to it, so installing a junction box wasn't necessary

He could have just meant there was no loop in wiring to other rooms and only one T+E cable present.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

He could.

Or he could have meant what he wrote.