Safety certificate

[SALL2009]

I will be getting an electric safety certificate for a property I’m going up to rent out. I haven’t changed any electrics and they are as they were when I bought the house. My questions are,
What regulations would the test be against? Current regs?
And what happens if some cable were run through unsafe zones?

 

[tonyelectric]

The regulations that would be used is British Standard 7671, Requirements for Electrical Installations, 17th Edition, or the 17th ed for short and Part P of the building regulations.

What you will be having is a Periodic Inspection report, faults or areas of non compliance are notified and rated ie: 1 being bad needing immediate attention, 2 requiring attention etc...

The regs are not retrospective so if you have a cable running in a wall where it is no longer permitted this would be noted fairly low, if however you have a toggle switch in the bathroom or a cable not up to the job that will get a 1.

You don't "have" to do anything that is reccomended, but if you don't and someone is hurt as a result you will be in the...

I would get all the code 1 & 2 defects dealt with, thats what our local authority does when we PIR places for them

Best

Tony

 

[SgtTrojan]

I'm intrigued by these "unsafe" zones. Is there a crocodile pit or shark pool there or something?

 

[pjcomp]

The accepted unsafe zones are anywhere that a cable can be expected. This means all cables should be run horizontally or vertically to the accessory they serve, so a socket will have its cable/s running straight up, down, elft or right. Ditto a light switch or a wall light, etc. Also unsafe are anywhere withing 150mm (six inches) of the corner of a room, and the same below ceiling level. In theory it should be safe to drill or nail anywhere else on the wall.

BUT ... it's never quite that simple in practice. Lots of people don't know the rules, and particualrly when you go back to the '70s and '80s and the heyday of d-i-y, cables were routed in all sorts of imaginative directions.

Generally speaking the dangerous room (domestic) is the kitchen. Most people, when they rearrange a living room or bedroom, move the furniture but then run extension leads for any appliances. When a kitchen is refurbished al lthe wiring and plumbing gets moved around then plastered over, so this is where Mr D-I-Y may well have left a trap for the unwary.

Sometimes the "unsafe" zones are confusingly referred to in the trade as the "safe" zones, because these are where it's safe to run cables. Civilians need to think of them as "unsafe" - unsafe to drill or nail.

PJ

 

[Taylortwocities]

And this happens

Untitled

• Taylortwocities
• 8 Oct 2009
• 4
• kitchen wallplug

and this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-electrocuted-in-botched-fitted-kitchen.html

(One of the reasons that Part P was introduced)...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) The consultation document for Part P was issued in May 2002.

2) The results of the consultation were published in September 2002.

3) The first Part P amendment to the Building Regulations was made on 13th July 2004, and laid before Parliament on 22nd of July 2004.

4) Mary Wherry, Jenny Tonge's daughter, was killed on 31st July 2004.

 

[Taylortwocities]

My utterance was meant that, in general terms, a history of bad electrical works was the reason for the introduction of Part P rather than that specific event.

Reading the article, the badly routed cable had been installed pre-Part P as the knife rack had been there for 3 years before her death.

 

[surreal]

The regulations that would be used is British Standard 7671, Requirements for Electrical Installations, 17th Edition, or the 17th ed for short and Part P of the building regulations.

That's interesting. On a PIR report where would someone enter non-conformance's to the building regulations and how would they be coded?

regs are not retrospective so if you have a cable running in a wall where it is no longer permitted this would be noted fairly low, if however you have a toggle switch in the bathroom or a cable not up to the job that will get a 1.

If the switch was in the bathroom but not in zone 1 what reg would be quoted for a code 1?

You don't "have" to do anything that is reccomended, but if you don't and someone is hurt as a result you will be in the...

I would get all the code 1 & 2 defects dealt with, thats what our local authority does when we PIR places for them

Best

Tony

That's seems to be good advice but who decides if the defects have been coded correctly?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My utterance was meant that, in general terms, a history of bad electrical works was the reason for the introduction of Part P rather than that specific event.

Sure it wasn't to shut NICEIC and the ECA up after years of them asking for statutory controls because they liked what Corgi had done for plumbers?

Reading the article, the badly routed cable had been installed pre-Part P.

Yup.

And not by a DIYer...

 

[Taylortwocities]

And not by a DIYer...

Exactly

 

[pjcomp]

That's interesting. On a PIR report where would someone enter non-conformance's to the building regulations and how would they be coded?

You wouldn't, as a PIR doesn't cover Part P - Part P sasy that electrics have to be installed as per the regs, so any deviation from regs is de facto deviation from Part P.

If the switch was in the bathroom but not in zone 1 what reg would be quoted for a code 1?

The PIR doesn't generally have particular regs quoted on it, but anyone doing a PIR and citing regs should have a copy handy to find and quote if asked.

... but who decides if the defects have been coded correctly?

In this case the inspecting electrician is the "policeman" and his decision is what goes on the form. If you, as recipient of the form, want to disagree/discuss you're entitled to. If someone else were to referee what was on the form, who would then decide if the refereeing was correct .. and so ad infinitum. That's what getting qualified and having experiecne is about, acquiring the knowledge and judgement to make these calls.

PJ

 

[SALL2009]

All the sockets of the house are on one RCD, Including the kitchen. Should the kitchen sockets be on their own circuit? And would the wiring be deemed safe as it is? (Obviously as long as there are no defects in the wiring)

Btw Cooker is on Gas. So the sockets are just standard sockets for kettle, Microwave etc

 

[tonyelectric]

Nothing wrong with all the sockets on one circuit, this was common practice on small to medium sized houses up until the early 80s when houses started being built with more sockets and the idea of separating up and down became more popular.

It would be possible to split the ring and create an upstairs and downstairs ring, but that is not essential by any means, the only drawback to what you have is that a fault at one point takes out the lot. The RCD should be rated at 30mA (that will be printed on it), if it's an older 100mA one the advice would be to change it.

Have to agree with BAS that part P was accelerated by the NICEIC in particular who badgered for it, against the wishes of the membership, they then set up the "Electrical Safety Council" which sounds psudo governmental and doesn't mention it's links to NICEIC but advises consumers to use NICEIC members - sharp practice but I ain't complaining