Sanding a floating floor

[prose]

We have just spent the weekend installing some pine tongue and groove floorboards using the floating method over underlay. It looks fantastic so far and we are planning on sanding them next weekend however I wondered if there were any special considerations that we should make as it's not nailed down anywhere? We are planning on hiring a drum sander and edging sander from the local hire shop.

Any info or advice will be appreciated.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Shouldn't really make a difference.
But.... using a drum sander would very likely 'destroy' all your hard work, leaving shatter marks everywhere (also because pine is very soft).
You're always better of trying to find a belt sander

 

[prose]

Thanks for the advice Woodyoulike. It's a shame there aren't more companies like you around the place!

If I can't find a large belt sander, only drum ones from the local hire shops would the best bet be to use a small, hand belt sander even though it will be laborious?

Thanks again

 

[WoodYouLike]

If they don't have a belt-sander you'll have to use a drum sander (hand-sanders will give a very irregular result). Try then to also find a Trio-sander for the third sanding (or even the second sanding). It will get rid of most of the shatter marks if done properly (and take your time!)

 

[chkee]

As it is new wood there is no need to use a big heavy floor sander, they are only really required when you need to take a lot off due to deep staining and scratching on old wood - pine is really soft so you will end up taking at least 5mm off with one of those machines, you also end up with marks in areas where you turn the machine and at the edges and will have to finish those off by hand, the edgers leave a circular pattern so avoid them also

i presume as it is new wood all you need is to sand the planks level and remove small scuffs and marks from when fitting so you can apply stain, varnish, oil or whatever is your choice

belt sanders can be hired at £18 a day but expensive http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=5131

at £18 a day it may be as well buying one for about £60 you will get a decent Bosch brand, I have used a Bosch belt sander 6 years to date similar to this one (mines a higher spec model that cost about £150) http://www.screwfix.com/prods/33078/Power-Tools/Sanders/Bosch-PBS7A-3-Belt-Sander-Micro-Filter

Try using the belt sander on a test piece (on the floor not on a bench - to experience what it will be like) , the trick is to have it spinning before you touch down and keep it moving or it will dig in

get down on your knees on the floor rather than trying to bend over, i use a foam pad to kneel on

once it is spining and moving use one hand to steady yourself and holding the sander in the other and let the sander 'float' across the floor pushing back and forwards in the direction you want (just like one of those spinning floor cleaners in hospitals etc)

lift it up before stopping it to avoid it digging in

sand diagonally across the room first to level the planks where they each meet along tongue and grooves, work from corner to corner in turn, once from each corner should be enough on new wood if it is level

finally sand with the grain, you need a much lighter touch as wood sands much easier with the grain than it does across it

the belt sander gets really close up to the edges when sanding with the grain (due to bag being fixed on one side you need to turn and face the other way for opposite wall)

you will have to stop short at the end of planks, just use a palm sander or old fashioned elbow power and sandpaper to blend in


sweep it then hoover and mop it at least 4 times before starting applying any varnishes etc

wear old light coloured cotton socks over your shoes to stop marking unsealed floor when walking on it

start with 80 grit, then 120 before first coat - a very light sand with orbital sander after first coat will take out the 'swelling' of the grain from the very first coat

my favourite finish is ronseal contractor quick cure http://www.ronsealcontractor.co.uk/prodshow.asp?prodID=1

it is in matt, satin or gloss finish and used in pubs etc doesn't mark but looks great plus can you clean brushes in soapy water

good luck

 

[WoodYouLike]

As it is new wood there is no need to use a big heavy floor sander, they are only really required when you need to take a lot off due to deep staining and scratching on old wood - pine is really soft so you will end up taking at least 5mm off with one of those machines,

Beg to differ.
A proper belt sander takes off maximum 1.5 - 2mm in total (3 sanding runs) also on pine. And turning the sander will give marks? You don't turn any machine when it's the drum/belt is still going on the floor. You will have a 'border' where you finish - hence you start at one wall, got to and fro and then start at the opposite wall. A decent edge-sander will do those areas the drum/belt sander can't reach.

A hand sander will definitely give you irregular marks which you will definitely notice when applying the finish - even when you think you've done a proper sanding job.
Belt sanders are the best, if you can't get those opt for a Trio-sander.

 

[chkee]

Re:"A proper belt sander takes off maximum 1.5 - 2mm in total (3 sanding runs) also on pine. "

Note: prose said it was new flooring - new pine is rapidly grown and considerably softer than the old pine flooring found in Victorian houses.

I have had to rescue DIY disasters many times and with all due respect to the users, the risk is that if you hire a drum sander you will get an old machine supplied with 60 grit and so heavy to use by someone unfamiliar with using it they will end up taking 5mm off new pine and deep marks where they have failed to lift the drum off the floor before they have stopped the machine or turned without raising the drum off the floor.



"And turning the sander will give marks? You don't turn any machine when it's the drum/belt is still going on the floor."

If you read my post again you will see that I clearly state not to allow the machine to continue to run before stopping it. But I was actually referring to the marks where you have been unable to reach the end on each run, whichever type or size of machine you use the only way to 'blend' these in is to use a palm sander or do it by hand.

"Belt sanders are the best"
Agreed, and the whole point of my post, hiring a drum or Trio sander is like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

Trio sanders are great for large rooms but complete overkill for a small domestic requirement. If the user has never used one before they can cause considerable deeps scuffs as they dig in and pull sideways plus they still leave a 10cm edge that will have to be blended out

 

[WoodYouLike]

the risk is that if you hire a drum sander you will get an old machine supplied with 60 grit and so heavy to use by someone unfamiliar with using it they will end up taking 5mm off new pine and deep marks where they have failed to lift the drum off the floor before they have stopped the machine or turned without raising the drum off the floor.

Yes, THE reason for not (ever) hiring a drum sander but a belt sander.

And I don't agree with your statement that hiring professional sanding equipment is like " using a sledge hammer to crack a nut".

Hand held sanding machines like the ones you suggest will definitely and especially on soft-woods leave irregular marks and ruin the whole effort.

 

[chkee]

And I don't agree with your statement that hiring professional sanding equipment is like " using a sledge hammer to crack a nut".

Hand held sanding machines like the ones you suggest will definitely and especially on soft-woods leave irregular marks and ruin the whole effort.

I think you have missed the point - the user stated it is brand new pine and so only needs a very light sand in preparation for sealing, hence using a lightweight BELT sander

 

[WoodYouLike]

Old, new floors: hand held sanding-machines will leave irregular marks.
You can't control the pressure on the wood and this will result in afore mentioned hideous marks. 9 times out of 10 you will only see these when you apply the finish product and then it's too late.

 

[chkee]

Old, new floors: hand held sanding-machines will leave irregular marks.
You can't control the pressure on the wood and this will result in afore mentioned hideous marks. 9 times out of 10 you will only see these when you apply the finish product and then it's too late.

And you think you can control the pressure better with a heavier machine like a Trio that is pulling you as it spins?

The best place to be is on your knees as you will only see any marks when down close, which you will not see when stood holding a large industrial machine.

Even after using a large machine such as a Trio I ALWAYS hand finish the floor, first with a belt sander and then either an orbital sander or by hand.

[/u]

 

[WoodYouLike]

Have it your way then.

Our experience is exactly that: much better results with 80-kg belt-sanders - even on a new floor.
You want to know how many times we've been called in to 're-do' a hand held sand job??

 

[chkee]

Have it your way then.

Our experience is exactly that: much better results with 80-kg belt-sanders - even on a new floor.
You want to know how many times we've been called in to 're-do' a hand held sand job??

I am surprised that you are advising someone to use an 80kg sander on a new softwood floor, you cannot control the pressure of that huge weight, perhaps your limited experience is only with modern hardwood flooring, and you have never actually sanded softwood. I say limited experience with due respect as according to companies house Wood You Like Limited, Roper Yard Canterbury was only incorporated on 07/11/2002.

Hand finished is always the best, whatever trade you are in, e.g you would never see a coachbuilder using a power tool to rub down before spraying, he always hand finishes with wet and dry first.

I started my training many years ago (1976) on decking for luxury yachts and you certainly would not use an 80kg machine on decking (and that is tropical hardwood),

I have over 30 years experience and have never been called back to any floor that I have laid and hand finished

 

[mattysupra]

According to companies house Wood You Like Limited, Roper Yard Canterbury was only incorporated on 07/11/2002.

Naughty!

i have spent many years in the trade training and etc getting to be one of the "so called" best in the trade! I have also learnt fom this, that it DOES NOT MATTER how long your buissness has been trading ! I have trained people who have been fitting for a year and they are now in the top 10 people in the trade, i have also trained or tried to train ( as more stubben! ) people who have 40 years in the trade and been fitting wrong from day one!

What im trying to say is it does not matter how much experience you have if you was shown the incorrect way in the first place!

Now we seem to be having a knock at how long "woodyoulike" has been trading! Well so what!!! What has this got to do with weather they are right or wrong in what they advice!

Well lets tidy things up here, "chkee", your a new kid on the block who we dont know yet! But it seems you and woody have a difference of opinion here and i dont want to take sides.

But from my shoes i would say your both correct in your own way!

Lets start with "woody" they are giving advice on how the floor SHOULD be sandered to the book . I agree that this is the correct way !

So lets turn the tables to our new friend "chkee" ! Well i must comment that what you have said is not correct to the 'book' , but i dont disagree with what you have said either! To be fair to you, you are correct that most diyers will not be able to handle a "trio" etc and will most prob end up with a wrecked floor! The hand sanding method you descride MIGHT be the best method for a novice to sand a soft wood. But to be fair towards woody, this is not the correct method as stated!

Basically in my eyes you are both correct depending how you look at it! Lets not start hitting below the belt here 'chkee' ! Woody does gives very good advice out on this forum, not that i always agree, but when i want to have a pop at 'woody' , i will do it over a email or a p.m. and resolve our matters in private.

 

[chkee]

Naughty? - if you use your company name on a forum - which is fine to promote your business, you obviously don't want to remain anonymous so my checking them out isn't intrusive

As far as having a 'pop' and private messages go, perhaps that advice should be directed at your friend Woody. I have merely pointed out the length of time trading that someone publicly undermining another's comments and attempting to promote themself as THE expert above all others without verifying that persons experience.