Sanding floor - help with queries appreciated

[DrEvil]

Hi all,

I've just moved into a new place which is a perfect opportunity to start my DIY all over again.

This place has some decent hardwood T&G laid flooring in the reception room, dining room and a tight hallway, but it must have been installed 5 - 10 years ago and so it and so it has some dents in it, peeling lacquer in places, bit yellowed etc

I would really like to give it a bit of a refreshed look and so thought I'd sand it and then apply some oil (seen Saicos Premium Hardwax Oil recommended).

I have a small batch questions to clear a few things in my head, check I'm not missing anything too obvious, check it's within my DIY capabilities and before I dive in and no doubt make mistakes.

1. I assumed sanding is the best way to remove the thin lacquer layer and reduce some of the dents?

2. I've seen belt and drum sanders - am I right in thinking there is a strong recommendation to used belt sanders here. I've seen a pretty reasonable rent on a 8" Bona continuos belt sander and an bona edge sander.

3. There is also a corner sander available - is bona edge sander likely to not be good enough to get into the corners and near crevices etc?

4. There is also a buffer - is this usually used? Haven't seen a mention of it on these forums so in my looking so far.

5. In sanding, would I be right in assuming I'd start with a 60 grit (as the floors are in fairly level) and (5b.) go along the length of the boards, i.e. not across?

6. Assuming walking at a slow steady pace, how many passes would you typically do or is it case of just till the lacquer's off.

7. Subsequent to 60 grit sand (if that's what I should start with), would the process be hoover and then 80grit, hoover and 120 grit, hoover and oil?

8. Seen some suggestions to wipe floor with damp rag before oiling and others to not do this - can anyone clarify?

9. Whats the best way of applying the oil - with a brush or roller?

10. The floor has a couple of gaps here and there. I'll be able to close up the ones near the edge by pulling up the edge strips and using a floor pulling bar, some small gaps will likely remain - should I fill those, or is it ok to leave them as minor gaps/ it won't mess up using the machine over them etc.

Many questions, but hopefully I'm along the right lines of understanding this!!


All help very much appreciated!
Thanks

 

[geeonegee]

Use the best Sanding gear you can afford, don't use the poor quality HT7 or HT8 from the hire shops, they are not in the same league as the Bona kit.

You may be suprised at what grit level you will need to take off old lacquers and seals, if you start on 60grit you will be in for a long long process, its likely that your floor has a UV lacquer on it, which mean ultra violet, its lacquer for mass production products that when applied and passed under an industrial UV lamp goes off in 1-2 seconds, its why the big manufacterers use UV lacquer, the boards will have had anything between 4-7 coats so don't be suprised if its rock hard to sand off.
I did a floor last week [i'm a Floor Sanding Professional btw] which sounds just like yours, and i started on a 36grit and it was a bit of a pig to clean off, and my machine is a 6 month old top of the range Bona 10" belt sander.....so start on 60grit at your peril....If after you start Sanding you notice a sweet smell in the air then the floor has definetely got UV lacquer on.

Always go up and down the boards, occasionally go on a 22-25 degree angle to flat out the odd high/low spots, but then go straight back over the area up and down again with the same grit paper.
The Bona Edge is a 7" Edger and is arguably the best edger in the business, i've got one and its a tremendous piece of kit, i'd advise using 40grit edging papers to edge the whole floor, and as the discs are round, NO they wont get right into the corners, for corners i use a bosch multitool with a triangular pad which takes the abrasives to get right into the corners with no trouble at all, failing that do it by hand with an old 40grit edging paper.

If you start on a 36 grit most professional floorsanders will go through a sequence of 36grit then 50 or 60, then 80 or 100grit depending on the floor, then blend out any sanding marks usually at either end of the room with an orbital sander, with say a 60grit paper on.

Vacuum frequently, at least 3-4 times with the last time being very thorough.

If you finish sanding with the big machine on a 100grit then the next phase for a professional would be a 100 or 120 grit with a buffing machine [ i use the Bona buffer with a 4D plate on] this will leave a lovely smooth finish for your seal of choice.

If you put hardwax oil on your floor be prepared to be re-oiling all the area's about once a year afterwards, maybe more, i personally find oil is no-where near as hardwearing as lacquers, its a subjective issue on here but i always try and steer my clients towards lacquers for ease of maintainence and better wear and tear....

I've got more help pages on my website, have a look at
www.woodfloor-renovations.co.uk

Hope this helps

Gary

 

[WoodYouLike]

If you put hardwax oil on your floor be prepared to be re-oiling all the area's about once a year afterwards, maybe more, i personally find oil is no-where near as hardwearing as lacquers, its a subjective issue on here but i always try and steer my clients towards lacquers for ease of maintainence and better wear and tear....

Said as a true lacquer/varnish person

We only use oils - thin oils on tropical, HardWaxOil on Oak etc. Never have to re-oil the floor each year, absolute not the case. Applying a maintenance product however, both on oiled and lacquered floors, will keep both types of finishes healthy, durable and protected against dirt and drips.

Now with Saicos Wax-Care Spray this is even become easier - suitable for all finish types, VOC-free and the most easy maintenance product to use ever!

As for wear and tear: scratches on oiled floors can more easily be treated/repaired locally than lacquered/varnished floors - which left untreated will turn dark, dirty in those areas.
We frequently get thanks from clients after they've switched from lacquered to oiled floors about this feature this type of natural finish has.
- Yeap, we're oil "lovers"

 

[DrEvil]

Wonderful responses, thanks to both of you!

Gary, does indeed sound like the type of flooring you have just done.

The package I've seen for rental is a Bona 8 Inch Continuous Belt Sander, Bona 7" Edge Floor Sander, what looks like a Bosch Corner Belt Sander, a Buffing Machine (not sure if Bona) so hopefully that should be in accordance with your recommendation.

Sounds like I’ll need to start with a 36 grit to get the lacquer off and might take a few goes to get that off, then 60grit, then 100 grit, then use the buffer on a 120 grit.

Question: To get a rough estimate of timing, can I ask **roughly** how long it would take you to do the sand to take the lacquer off in a room that was say 12 foot wide by 28 foot long (boards laid along the length of room).

I’m hoping that a weekend rental should be enough to do the three rooms, but can always make it a 3 day rental.

 

[geeonegee]

WYL i find it really easy to spot repair lacquered floors, and FYI i can apply any type of oil with the very best of them....done loads, but tell me .....whats better....2 or 3, everyone knows 2 coats of oil are applied to a floor, whereas any self respecting pro floorsander always applies 3 coats of lacquer, but i suppose we do like to stick with what we know......lacquer EVERY time...better, much quicker drying, harder wearing, easier to keep clean and will last longer, Don't see many oiled finishes getting used in nightclubs do we...

Anyway DRevil, 2 of us did the forementioned job last week, 28m2 if memory serves in a day, and came back the day after to finish off the Hall and W/C, all finished with 3 x Junckers Strong Matt.....great stuff , hardwearing and easy to apply, so if you are doing everything on your own i'd allow 3 days to give yourself a little breathing space.

Hope that helps

 

[WoodYouLike]

each its own

1st coat of oil dries in 4 hours, 2nd coat of oil dries in 4 hours - as quick as lacquer

DRevil, don't forget my colleague is used to his sanding equipment and did the job with 2 men (as we would do). If you are on your own and are not experienced with sanding tools, take your time - better to add another day of hiring the tools than to rush and not be happy with the end-result

No matter which finish you apply, sanding errors normally only show up after you applied the first coat.

Oh, and if you opt for a lacquer finish, check out Pall-X-96 (Pallman): very hard wearing

 

[DrEvil]

Thanks for advice, and yes I'm a novice with the tools. Would think about getting it professionally done, but we don't have the budget for it and are thinking we might recarpet the living room in 3-5 years in any case, so will go for the extra day rental (the oiling can be completed the following weekend if I run out of time)!

I'm still in my planning phase, so another couple of quick questions -

Would you recommend I do much of the decorating in that room before or after doing the floor (so painting ceiling, walls, coving repair and repainting skirting - in particular I'm wondering how much damage the skirting will incur on sanding).

Also is the 'wipe floor with damp rag before oiling' recommended or not Wood you like?

 

[WoodYouLike]

Definitely before you start on the floor!
Both lacquer and oils need 8 - 10 days to fully cure, so protecting a freshly finished wood floor with covers would do more harm than good (try telling that to builders!), and sure you know about Murphy (you will spill paint )

Ad for damaging the skirting boards, most edge sanders have felt on the outside specially for this. Otherwise, just take care - it does not happen that easy though

Between sanding rounds vacuum clean the floor (using a soft broom works often quite as well). After the last sanding vacuum thoroughly and if needed use a damp (well wrong-out cloth!). Then let this dry for about 30 minutes to make sure you have a proper clean and dry surface.

 

[geeonegee]

Fully agree with WYL on the decorating, get as much done before hand as possible, and if you do hire a quality edging machine such as the excellent Bona 7" then you will be hard pressed to do any damage to the skirting boards, but i often advise clients to undercoat the skirts before sanding, then in the unlikely event that the edger did leave a scuff or two on the skirts then the gloss coat will easily cover any blemishes, but you do need to have trust in your decorator.....or your decorating skills....good luck with your project....

 

[WoodYouLike]

great tip on undercoat geeonegee, will pass that on to our clients too.