Seals in old boilers and POC analysis

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Hi all, first time posting, very grateful for any advice / opinion you can offer.

My Stelrad 440 WRS was recently condemned following a gas analyser sweep. The Engineer's view is that POCS are making there way into the kitchen and that this is due to a seal in the flue that is nearly impossible to get at - he said I may as well get a new boiler, given the amount of hours it would take to replace.

The Engineer originally stated carbon monoxide was entering the room - obviously a worrying thought, however on request the Engineer showed me the gas analyser operating with the probe positioned as shown attached (without the boiler case on). During these couple of minutes we watched the readings , and no CO was detected, but CO2 was rising - unfortunately a print out was not provided and I can't recall the figures. No clear reason was given for the CO / CO2 discrepancy and the Engineer proceeded to condemn the boiler on the more general 'POC escaping flue' statement. Knowing little of these matters and not wanting to rock the boat (especially given the possibility of an imminent new install) I felt compelled to go along with signing its end. Having since spent a little time to reflect, I am unsure whether what happened is accurate and am wondering if another Engineer could / would have reached a different conclusion, especially if that Engineer were familiar with such old systems.

My doubts / questions are:

Only CO2 witnessed - I understand this is a normal POC, can be dangerous in excess quantities. Can you fail old boilers on this? If so what sort of ppm are we talking about?
The boiler case (which has seal) was not on when performing the test , wouldn't this have affected the gas analyse?
It seems quite possible that burnt gas from the internal part of the flue could make its way back in to the boiler casing via the air intake (outer part) , could this have affected the gas analyse?
The burner is hung underneath the iron HE (no containment between the two) and I thought it possible that some of the POCS may miss the flue (the Engineer has advised this would be unlikely due to convection). Thoughts?
The seals, at least from what I can tell seem fairly accessible shown on the attached. Do you agree? Are there other seals I am unaware of? Some of them are putty, presumably not something used much these days?
The HE is on two halves and I can see how this would be a pain to improve (drain system etc), however a comment on an old thread suggested that due to it being a balanced flue the draught action would nullify the potential for any gasses to escape such seals.


If indeed this boiler has something wrong and cannot be made to operate as it should I am not adverse to a new boiler. Hopefully age and lack of familiarity with older systems have not influenced the Engineer's decision.

Thanks in advance
 

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Wow that was quick. Thanks Cross thread, he didn't seem to think that would make much of a difference..... time for a phone call by the sounds of it!
 
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Makes complete sense, thank you. Presume the case seal can be improved by Engineer if needs be?
 
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No worries, that was a bit of a nothing question, can be assessed later. With risk of harping the point, you're not surprised to learn of CO2 being detected then? Also are you aware whether there is such a limit for CO2, or does it normally fall to the Engineer's judgement?
 
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Wow that was quick. Thanks Cross thread, he didn't seem to think that would make much of a difference..... time for a phone call by the sounds of it!
The "engineer" is an idiot. How can he say the seals are defective when the case with ITS seal is not fitted.

What company was this?
did you see his gas safe card?
Why was he there?
 
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Thanks Chris , that's useful to know I do recall seeing a 5 , may have been 0.5% which would tally. I don't want to name and shame anyone really, but corgi registered and by google reviews respected. I think he just tested with the analyser as a final thought before leaving. Yes seemed a bit rushed with the case off. Are you / cross thread aware of any other seals in the flue that I have not picked up on?? thanks again
 
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Thanks Fireman, it did feel all v rushed and I was on the spot and seeing two months pay down the toilet so didn't have head on to challenge at the time. seems a consensus then that case should have been on. Just been down, it would appear to be sealed all around, so as all have pointed out a key part of the boiler..... my gas pipe has been chopped so it's going to be difficult to get this one sorted.
 

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Sorry, it’s not a boiler I’m familiar with, but I do have some training in Carbon Monoxide sampling. What was the engineer there for? Did you consent to having the gas pipe chopped/appliance turned off? What is the reason for him classing it as unsafe - the CO2?
 
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Hi Chris , the Engineer was there to fix it (replacement pilot jet, and electrode). He got the thing going so we thought we were on a winner but then mentioned the POCs. He verbally spoke of CO in the kitchen but then seemed a little unsure when the second time the analyser only showed CO2 (he never addressed this discrepancy which is one of the main reasons I am struggling to accept his conclusion ). In the end he marekd on the p55 ' products of combustion leaking out of flue into kitchen'. I did give consent for the gas pipe to be disconnected. I think I need to have a further chat with the Engineer but don't think I am going to get anywhere with it .. Who would want to reconnect a boiler that has been condemned for starters? I still haven't lost complete faith in this chap , perhaps he did what he felt best, but sounds as though there are some flaws in the process..
 
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Hi Chris , the Engineer was there to fix it (replacement pilot jet, and electrode). He got the thing going so we thought we were on a winner but then mentioned the POCs. He verbally spoke of CO in the kitchen but then seemed a little unsure when the second time the analyser only showed CO2 (he never addressed this discrepancy which is one of the main reasons I am struggling to accept his conclusion ). In the end he marekd on the p55 ' products of combustion leaking out of flue into kitchen'. I did give consent for the gas pipe to be disconnected. I think I need to have a further chat with the Engineer but don't think I am going to get anywhere with it .. Who would want to reconnect a boiler that has been condemned for starters? I still haven't lost complete faith in this chap , perhaps he did what he felt best, but sounds as though there are some flaws in the process..
 
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I think you are being generous, really.
Contact him, explain that you have sought further advice and that the case should have been firmly on. Get him to return FOC , replace he case and make sure it is firmly fitted. The correct process is to test the seal using a flame near the seal all around the case. The flame should not be disturbed - that would indicate seal failure.
Unless he had reason to suspect fumes escaping (stained wall etc) there is no requirement for using a FGA on this boiler.

I he refuses , tell him that you have no option but to contact gas safe when you will explain what you witnessed.

Is he definitely registered?
 

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