Septic Tank Regulations - are they retrospective?

[duncx]

After what seeems like an age of discussions, problem solving, hand wringing etc we are finally close to exchanging contracts on a lovely old GradeII listed house. It's not without its problems and we are going into it with our eyes open, but the very last pile of documents sent to us has raised one last issue for us to think about.

The property is in a rural setting and has a septic tank of indeterminate age - which we already knew. However, the owner has now told us that it hasn't been emptied for 14 years . A bit of internet research shows me that this could be a real problem - solids could have by now entered the soakaway (if there is one!) and wrecked the system. I think I'm fully aware of all the techncial issues but my questions (eventually!) are more a legal ones.

1) The system (age unknown) is not registered with any authorities - must it be so regardless of its age?
2) Does the system have to comply with the latest standards/building regs or is it likely to be exempt due to its age?
3) If the answer to (2) is 'its exempt', and I have to repair any part of the system will this 'repaired section' then have to comply with the latest standards/regs?

As a matter on interest I am certain that the system could not comply with the latest regs, it's too close to a watercourse and the property boundary

Thanks for any help

 

[big-all]

suspect legal or expert advice would be best
if you are polluting a water course regulations in force at the time off instalation are irrelivent as its a different problem

 

[duncx]

suspect legal or expert advice would be best
if you are polluting a water course regulations in force at the time off instalation are irrelivent as its a different problem

Yes, I'm going to contact the EA on Monday but I hoped someone on here could shed a bit of light!
I think (but don't know for certain) that the system is ok at the moment. I doubt that it is directly polluting the watercourse as there are non of the tell tale signs of direct discharge into the watercourse or failure of the soakaway.

I guess that have a once-only chance to sort this before we exchange and more importantly not at my expense - but I need to be well informed to carry the argument!

 

[big-all]

you need to find out the likely minimum and maximum to sort out the problem

you then need to work out how much you want this house and decide a point between 0 and 100% off costs where it becomes a deal breaker for you and aim for a point close to that

as executors we are selling our fathers house and one off the supplimentary questions was about connection to mains drainage

 

[jeds]

If the system discharges to a drainage field then it will need to be registered with the environment agency as an existing discharge before January 2012. So it need not be registered now but will have to be soon. The system must comply with the regulations which existed when the system was installed.

Sounds to me that you should allow for some significant improvement or alteration of the system as a minimum.

 

[merlin50]

if it has not been emptied for 14 years its working well, do not plan on getting mine emptied ever as i take great care on what is put in it

 

[Tipper]

Don't go talking to EA, you'll never hear the last of it.

If it's not sludged up leave well alone.

I recently carried out a flat conversion ( house to 3 flats requirign new bathrooms, etc) and the Buildinbg Inspector took no interest in the drains other than the construction detail and inspection of the new runs/connetions/falls. He had no interest in my 'private drains' whatsoever.

Blinkers on if I were you!

 

[jeds]

True, you could put your blinkers on and do nothing. As long as you don't plan to sell the property at some point in the future that might work ok. If you do plan to sell it then I'd advise sorting it all out now whilst you still have the opportunity to negotiate with the seller.

 

[clifford1]

The system must comply with the regulations which existed when the system was installed.

Can you give a source for that interesting piece of information?

Supposing the system, like mine, was installed so long ago that there were no regulations at the time?
Mine hasn't been emptied since before the war, and probably never since the house was built in about 1880. There may not even be anything -the pipes just disappear into the ground and nothing ever emerges.

I'd say leave well alone.

 

[big-all]

its the same with all regulations as long as its a repair/maintainance rather than an improvement you dont do anything

imagine the electrics gas water insulation stairs roof walls having to be updated every other year

 

[duncx]

Quick update on this...

I've done a lot more research and I've spoken to the EA (not mentioning actual address of the property).

As of last week there was a rule change for England and there is now no requirement to register a septic tank. You can register if you want to, but you don't have to They said that these latest rules would be reviewed by Dec 2012 but that it was 'unlikely' that registration would become mandatory in England.

An existing system does not have to comply with current design regulations (unless you modify/recontruct it), but it does have to comply with the regulations that were in force at the time of construction. If there were no regs in force at the time of contruction or you don't know when it was built then........er.......they couldn't answer that!

The basic message from the EA seemed to be that as long as it's not causing an obvious problem then they have no reason to get involved at all

As for the septic tank itself - after inspecting it I can see it's a two chamber concrete tank, the inlet, transfer and outlet pipes do not dip below the 'Top Water Level' (not good), the first tank is full to the top with ...ahem...solids (not good), the second tank is free of said solids and holds 'water' to the correct level (good), the outlet pipe travels slightly downhill for about 1m before a 90deg bend takes it seemingly vertically downwards to who knows what depth - I'm thinking this is not a proper soakaway but more a deep pit filled with stones etc. Still, it seems to work.

So, I'm going to get it emptied (current owner kindly offered to pay half and check the integrity of the tank - if it looks ok then I'm happy(ish).


Thanks for all the comments.

 

[clifford1]

Thanks too for prompting some useful replies.

 

[jeds]

The system must comply with the regulations which existed when the system was installed.

Can you give a source for that interesting piece of information?

Supposing the system, like mine, was installed so long ago that there were no regulations at the time?
Mine hasn't been emptied since before the war, and probably never since the house was built in about 1880. There may not even be anything -the pipes just disappear into the ground and nothing ever emerges.

I'd say leave well alone.

I picked up a summary of the registration regulations from RICS monthly news a couple of months ago. The regs have been around for a while but domestic registrations were not due to start until Jan 2012 (although it seems that might now have changed?? - see above) Look up 'guidance for the registration of small sewage effluent discharges' dated July 2011.

The registration doesn't mean you have to do anything to your system. It just means you have to register it. The vast majority of existing domestic systems will be registered as 'exempt' from the regulations so I don't think there is anything to worry about in terms of having to do any upgrading.

But from duncx point of view - in the process of buying a house - I would advise either allowing for some upgrading or at least thoroughly checking the system out to make sure it is fully functional and not causing any polution - which is obviously what he is doing. It would be mad to just ignore it and hope it will be ok.

Registration will eventually become a standard conveyancing search so if a system is not already registered it will have to be done before the house can be sold. (subject to their being some recent change in the registration scheme as mentioned above)