1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Single story extension on semi

Discussion in 'Building' started by stuartimrie, 24 Jan 2017.

  1. stuartimrie

    stuartimrie

    Joined:
    24 Jan 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hello all

    My wife and I are planning on building a single story extension on to the rear of our 3 bed semi.
    The kitchen currently projects out from the rear of the house by ~1220mm. This is original.
    We'd like to extend out from the main building wall by 3 meters, spanning the full width of the house (~6200mm). This would give us a nice ~18m2 space in which we'll have a larger kitchen with open plan dining/kids area.
    I have had some quotes from architects to do detailed drawings but i am shocked at what they are looking for to assist. Both quotes have come in at around £3000 plus VAT to do the drawings, assist with building warrant and have the engineers work done too.
    I am aware I cannot hide from the latter two, but I don't think i'll see £2000 worth of benefit from the architects drawings.
    My questions for this forum are the following....

    Most importantly, do people agree that this small extension could be carried out without an architect, and would the tradesmen be able to complete the work to as good a standard without detailed drawings? My opinion, right or wrong, is that the tradesmen will see this project as a jolly. Its a square and shouldn't require any special materials.

    How much work are people prepared to carry out themselves?
    Personally, i think i am happy to hire in a mini digger and get the ground leveled off, prior to a builder coming in to dig the trenches and do the cement work. Concrete is not something i've ever played with before so would rather this was done right.

    Would you suggest having roof trusses manufactured, or could a joiner knock these together to the correct spec with his own materials?

    Does cash still talk in the building trade? I.e. would tradesmen still be willing to negotiate rates based on part cash, part through the business. Should I ask for this or just hope they propose it?

    Some pictures of the current house as well as something we threw together in Sketchup really quickly. I'm concerned about heating the space if i have the living room > new space open plan completely. What would peoples recommendations be here?
    Note, the bifold doors and window are put in purely for illustration. I will likely re-use my current french doors.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I will update this thread if/when the project kicks off but please, advice is required!!

    Thanks

    Stuart
     
  2. tomfe

    tomfe

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2014
    Messages:
    1,262
    Thanks Received:
    160
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    1: Yes, most would be but go with some drawings they don't need to be through an architect can be just someone who knows building regs e.g. architectural technologist.
    2. Don't start digging unless you have a builder onboard and it's been OKed by them. If you do something they not like they it may put the price up.
    3. I doubt there will be any roof trusses.
    4. Some will work with a cash price others wont, not because they are dodging tax more that cash is real and in hand.
     
  3. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    18,265
    Thanks Received:
    1,994
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Yes architectural technician, forget architects for this job.
     
  4. ^woody^

    ^woody^

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2006
    Messages:
    26,281
    Thanks Received:
    3,240
    Location:
    West Mids
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    There are lots of crap builders with drawings. You need to be aware of the risks if you rely on builders with no drawings.

    You won't want trusses with those rooflights in the roof

    Cash still rules for builders. But again you need to be wise to the risks, as you most certainly won't be having a formal contract.

    Your sketch is out of proportion. Don't let the builder's use it. But more pertinently, be sure that things fit in and it can be built.
     
  5. stuartimrie

    stuartimrie

    Joined:
    24 Jan 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for the comments so far.

    The sketch was done based on 6200mm wide and coming out 2400mm from the living room wall (at that time was not aware of permitted building rights, which will allow up to 4000mm). The remainder of the house forward of the living room is not to scale. This will be amended if the work is to go ahead.

    In general, will the tradesmen have the experience to erect this sort of construction without looking too deeply at drawings? (obviously this is based on the tradesmen you choose, but in general).
    Why would i not want to use roof trusses for this job? Surely they'd be spaced 600mm apart and any 550mm skylight will fit between?
     
  6. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    18,265
    Thanks Received:
    1,994
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    With rooflights it's crying out for a vaulted ceiling, rooflights in a trussed roof makes no sense.
     
  7. stuartimrie

    stuartimrie

    Joined:
    24 Jan 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    By "vaulted" you mean like an open roof area? I agree and this may well be what happens, however it could make the kitchen look odd as i may have floor to ceiling cabinets as it enters the new area. I guess i could open up the rest. Would certainly make the space feel better.
     
  8. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    18,265
    Thanks Received:
    1,994
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Rooflights in a trussed roof are like light tunnels and have a habit of becoming a bit of a condensation trap especially in kitchens:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. ^woody^

    ^woody^

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2006
    Messages:
    26,281
    Thanks Received:
    3,240
    Location:
    West Mids
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Believe it or not, is not just about drawing plans for builders, but designing an extension for living in.

    Builders won't be interested in design, just building. And building to suit themselves normally, as they won't be living in it, or paying for it.

    And who decides if the extension should be a bit longer to fit full kitchen base units in, or if the window should be over a bit so that the curtains hang properly? And if they are not, who pays for the alterations?

    I'd advise reading up on what you could be letting yourself in for. Those Architect's quotes were just silly. But by the sound of things, you need a designer to draw plans, so find one that gives a more sensible quote.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. stuartimrie

    stuartimrie

    Joined:
    24 Jan 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    First of all I have read up about what i could be letting myself in for. On top of that, i've taken to this forum for advice.
    I am having plans drawn up by a colleague, who will draw them to scale. I can then take that in to sketchup and shuffle around furniture and kitchen units etc, but ultimately, i trust that a kitchen designer will be able to make best use of the space I allocate for the kitchen.
    I don't want to have to pay someone to design a small 15 sq/m living space, which i am fairly restricted to based on permitted development rights and of course, budget. What i do need, however, is advice on certain key areas from people who have carried out this kind of work before.
     
  11. Ian H

    Ian H

    Joined:
    14 Sep 2010
    Messages:
    5,632
    Thanks Received:
    613
    Location:
    Rochdale
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    We did a very similar one 12 years ago.

    It was 6.3 x3.3 and the only difference to yours was that we had a flat back wall.

    The drawings cost £500, council permissions maybe £300?

    We dug and poured the foundations, local builder then built the walls and poured the floor.

    We did the roof ourselves with 2 velux. The builder then came back and made the openings into the house.

    Electrician and gas man came.

    We boarded the walls (I dot and dabbed foil back boards so they fell off).

    Plasterer came in.

    We fitted an MFI kitchen.

    That was it, was good fun :)
    image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: 25 Jan 2017
  12. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

    Joined:
    26 Aug 2016
    Messages:
    5,609
    Thanks Received:
    750
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    We were in a similar situation to you just over a year ago, we wanted a simple box on the back, our only difference was our house is 1930s so we wanted to match the style a bit better. We'd seen enough unsympathetic extensions during our house hunting to know that's not what we wanted.
    In the end the architect worked out what we really needed, effectively ripped up our ideas, and made something involving mostly internal alterations with a modest extension. Costing around 4-5k per square metre of addition space, it sounds expensive, and the architect for all the drawings and advice/inspections throughout the build plus SE came to around 10% of the build cost!
    However now it's basically done, even the bizarre seeming changes like moving a structural internal wall about a foot sideways really make sense! And there's no way in a million years wed have come up with that ourselves! They did quite a few rather odd seeming things.
    However it's a lot of money and if you just literally need the space, it's going to exist regardless!

    On the diy front, the quotes all included a large amount for some technical tasks such as plumbing and electrics, so you can save a lot doing that. Try to focus on the jobs with the high daily rate and cheap materials. I've done those myself, and fittng the kitchen and flooring etc too. If you're a perfectionist you can take your time too.

    Good luck!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. ^woody^

    ^woody^

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2006
    Messages:
    26,281
    Thanks Received:
    3,240
    Location:
    West Mids
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Yes that's it. Most people don't realise that that having someone just drawing some extension plans is not the same as having someone design an extension.

    Neither is cutting and pasting a standard text to pass building regulations, the same as specifying appropriate products and materials.

    And the greatest mistake is failing to realise that saving a few hundred pounds on some detailed plans, is going to cost much much more when the builder puts his bill in for all the extras, and longer term after he has used all the cheap stuff that he got from the merchants.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. noseall

    noseall

    Joined:
    2 Feb 2006
    Messages:
    34,438
    Thanks Received:
    2,156
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Some people just refuse to listen, Woods.
     
  15. wessex101

    wessex101

    Joined:
    4 Jul 2013
    Messages:
    1,018
    Thanks Received:
    171
    Location:
    Dorset
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I think Woody has summed it up perfectly there.

    I am starting to worry that I am finding myself agreeing with Woody most of the time. I think I've been here too long.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page