Sludged Heatline heat exchanger.... or not???

[saira]

Having a real problem with the company with with whom our boiler is insured. The boiler is two and a half years old and there have been no problems. Last year a power flush was done through the system by one company who when questioned said they would have flushed the boiler itself as well as the radiators etc.

This last month the hot water seemed not to work, it would begin but very soon turned cold every time a tap was opened. The insurers were called and sent their servicing company to investigate. They simply opened the boiler door, asked a few questions came to the conclusion that the heat exchanger needs replacing. He didn't open or investigate the boiler in anyway, only the cover door. The whole inspection took five minutes, mainly all talk.

Of course (no surprise) the insurance does not cover replacing heat exchangers or the labour involved to do so. Phone calls back and forth between the insurers, their contracted service company, and us, revealed that their servicing company do power flushes that do not include a flush of the boiler. They insist ALL power flushes exclude boilers, contrary to what the other company told us who actually performed our power flush. They also informed us through the insurers, it was a routine problem, "happens all the time". If we push for a second opinion we have to pay for it even though we feel the investigation done was inadequete... but what do we know?!!


Is it possible a two and a half year old boiler can get a sludged heat exchanger so quickly, even following a power flush? Could it be ascertained simply by telling him the symptom I have stated above: hot water for a second followed by cold?

I have been trying to find out where I can buy a heatline heat exchanger but with no luck. How easy would this be to try and fit ourselves? (We are totally hacked off with the insurancecompany and are going to cancel our contract).

 

[Agile]

You have not told us the full story!

Why was it power flushed and who did the work and who paid for it?

Power flushing is required because the system is full of dirt and usually this would be because the boiler fitters never power flushed the system.

Its usual for the firm who do the power flushing to NOT touch the boiler. We do but few others do!

Often power flushing disturbs dirt which gets into the plate HE shortly afterwards.

As far as I am aware NO insurance scheme covers power flushing!

Tony Glazier

 

[saira]

You have not told us the full story!

Why was it power flushed and who did the work and who paid for it?

Power flushing is required because the system is full of dirt and usually this would be because the boiler fitters never power flushed the system.

Its usual for the firm who do the power flushing to NOT touch the boiler. We do but few others do!

Often power flushing disturbs dirt which gets into the plate HE shortly afterwards.

As far as I am aware NO insurance scheme covers power flushing!

Tony Glazier

Thanks for the prompt reply, Tony. The power flush took place because two out of six radiators in the property were not working. We paid for this, not the insurers, with whom we have had five properties insured, for 10 years. We used the company that the insurers used to use for service and repairs as we were happy with work they had done under insurance in the past. We have called on the insurance twice in the last two years for different properties and each time the new service company has given us cause for complaint and they are now the reason why we will be terminating our insurance. We paid £509 for the power flush. Subsequent to the difficulties with the insurance over this matter, we have been assured by the company that did the power flush that they did flush the boiler. So is it possible the heat exchanger is clogged? Is it possible to discern this simply by opening the boiler door? We don't mind paying for the heat exchanger if we know categorically that that is the fault, but we have been given this whole general assessment thing: "it's usual in these cases...", "we see this a lot..." without the engineer even looking into the boiler. It's down to us to do the job of actually trying to find out what the cause might be, short of opening the boiler... It makes me wonder what on earth I am paying insurance for!

We still need to fix the boiler. We need to know where we can buy a heatline heat exchanger, and it's cost, in the London area because if it is in indeed the heat exchanger, we will now be arranging to do it ourselves.

I work in litigation so am loathe to name (an shame) the companies involved. I even feel it is unethical to advertise the company we are happy with here on this site.

 

[Agile]

£509 is a lot to pay for power flushing unless its in the charging zone. Most charge about £350.

My view is that the power flushing firm SHOULD clean the plate HE within that price, as we do, but most firms do not.

Few even seem to have the skill to deal with the boiler!

We often get called to deal with boilers after the system has been power flushed and the flushing firm are unable or unwilling to deal with the boiler.

Cleaning the plate HE is one of the most common repairs that we do. It normally has to be removed from the boiler. It has to be cleaned chemically but the chemicals to be used depend on the nature of the blockage, sometimes a combination.

Tony

 

[saira]

I just found out that in February last year, at the same time the power flush was done they replaced the heat exchanger. So the heat exchanger is only a year old and fitted after they had carried out the power flush. The company (bless them) is writing a letter for explaining how they do their power flush, ie that they flush boiler as well as system, and that seeing how a heat exchanger was fitted that would have been fitted following the flush. Off out to pick up the paperwork. Feeling a little less alone.

 

[Agile]

Thats 14 months ago! A lot can happen in that time!

Power flushing can loosen dirt and that dirt can later get moved to block the plate HE weeks or months later.

If the boiler is included in the power flushing loop then that can trap the dirt in the plate HE and make it worse than before.

If they replaced the plate HE after power flushing then that is likely to have solved the problem at that time. But now its 14 months later!

Tony

 

[no66]

Hi
If the power flush was done via the central heating pump, circulating pump within a combi or even through rad valves what would the circumstances have to be for the flush not to go through the exchanger as long as the circuits are fully open would it not go through the exchanger and remove sludge ?

 

[saira]

Thanks again Tony for your reply.

I am beginning to think this was more of an insurance problem than a plumbing one.

Oh how I wish I could publicise the company that did our power flush...

In chasing them up for paperwork to prove that they do the power flush in the manner they do, we discovered a heat exchanger was also put in. As the letter was being put together, out of courtesy, the company said they would send an engineer to check what was going on. It transpires there are two heat exchangers: one for the central heating, one for the hot water. The one changed was the one involved with central heating. In order to ascertain the state of the other they took a sample of water from the boiler, which was clean. They actually did more than just open the door... and there was nothing in it for them. They knew we were just trying to persuade the insurers to have the other company to come and take a proper look. They then told us to call our insurance company, to advise the insurers to talk to them for their diagnosis, which happened. The implication was that the heat exchanger was not blocked but malfunctioning or damaged. The insurance company rang us and said, as a result, we WERE covered and gave us a job number to deal with the original company with whom we were in dispute. There would be no cost incurred by us. We called that company and were rudely told we ARE NOT covered! They stubbornly refused to listen to us when we said we had had a second opinion and we were now being sent back by the insurers who were telling us we were in fact covered. They told us to go back to the insurers! When we asked that they talk to the insurance company as we were unquaified to say much more and were fed up with having to to and fro between the two, with little resolution, we were told "No!" and given some convoluted explanation absolving the company from any contact with the insurers to sort this out.

We have now told the insurers that if we have to deal with that company again we will pull all five contracts we have for the properties we have insured with them and cancel with them. The insurers have agreed to allow the repair to be done by the company who did our power flush, who also do a bit of work for our insurers. The insurers have made notes that in future we will only deal with the power flush company and NOT Glowarm... (Oh dear, did I really just say that?!! I may as well have said I would like to take C. Anderson to dinner!!! To hell with litigation. At the end of the day the consumer has the right to complain and make that complaint known and all I have said can be verified.)

It only remains for me to say:

ALL HAIL C. ANDERSON, FOR PLUMBERS THAT CARE!

 

[zk]

I think you are being fed incorrect information by your plumbers/Power flushing company. Why was there a need to change the main heat exchanger? And as tony has said, if they were to do a proper flushing of the system, then they should have removed the plate heat exchanger and flushed it seperatly, and how long were they flushing your system for?

 

[Agile]

Thanks again Tony for your reply.

Oh how I wish I could publicise the company that did our power flush...

It transpires there are two heat exchangers: one for the central heating, one for the hot water. The one changed was the one involved with central heating.

I may as well have said I would like to take C. Anderson to dinner.

Unfortunately, you are becoming a bit muddled here!

There are indeed two heat exchangers. The primary one takes the heat from the burning gas and sends it either to the central heating OR to the secondary plate heat exchanger ( HE ).

Its the plate HE which becomes blocked by dirt.

None of the insurance companies cover problems caused by dirt in the system.

Power flushing should cover dealing with any boiler problems but in reality few do or even know how to.

If you want to understand heating systems then you should take me out to dinner rather than Mr Anderson ( whoever he is ). Or even both Khan and I ! ( Thats Khan the boiler engineer and not Saira Khan the TV presenter of course! )

Tony

 

[saira]

If you want to understand heating systems then you should take me out to dinner rather than Mr Anderson ( whoever he is ). Or even both Khan and I ! ( Thats Khan the boiler engineer and not Saira Khan the TV presenter of course! )

Tony

Ahhhh Tony. I could think of nothing better than taking you (and Khan) to dinner for bothering to help me! I would take out C. Anderson but I think it has about 50 employees and my budget wouldn't stretch to that!

C. Anderson is the company that convinced our insurers to repair the heat exchanger under our insurnace cover. It is highly likely I have got muddled with all the talk that was taking place between everyone involved. I had no idea there were to heat exchangers until that last message and it was relayed to me by my Mum who was left to deal with engineers at one point as I have life to get on with! The C.Anderson engineer came and took a sample of water from the boiler, presumably from the supposedly sludged part of the boiler...except the water was clean. They gave the insurers their diagnosis and wey-hey all was fixed at no extra cost to ourselves. Ironically we have since received calls from Glowarm asking if we still want the work done at the price they are charging...This is after complaining both to Glowarm and the insurers, about Glowarm, that we are no longer prepared to deal with them. It seems they are incapable of listening to anything said to them.

I'd just like to add the real star of the show is the receptionist who bothered to chase things up at C. Anderson, when it wasn't really her job to do that.

So do you like sushi...?

 

[Agile]

Khan and I are more curry than sushi men!