Socket on lighting circuit (warning, pointless squabbling removed)


that's just the nominal voltage, give or take a bit.

In my house the actual is invariably 240v, within less than a v, which is normal for UK

In my commercial premises was tested at 230v on each phase and 400v 3-ph (in winter). I was quite surprised that actual is same as nominal. It is on a small modern industrial estate. I don't know if that's by design or chance. There are a lot of domestic PV installations around it.

I've been in small-town USA where it varies a lot more than here, as the load changes.
 
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that's just the nominal voltage, give or take a bit.

In my house the actual is invariably 240v, within less than a v, which is normal for UK

That seems to be a bit glib. In my house it is always 250V and no doubt at the other end of the road it is lower. Supplies are chosen to deal with both ends of the run. The logical thing to supply is a high value guaranteed to be a bit less than the max, so as to cope with increasing losses at the far end.
 
Sorry, I was referring to my shaver socket having a 110V and 230V option, what I want to do is power my Amazon Alexa echo device from the shaver socket.

Is this possible please?

Ta
 
you're still asking the same question that you asked in March?

Looking back at the thread, I don't see a picture of the charger device you have in mind. Please post a photo of it.

I am particularly interested to see what sort of pins it has, and how many.

It is very relevant that you want to use it in a bathroom. Why do you want to do that?

Measured horizontally along the floor or ceiling, how far will your outlet be from the footprint of the nearest fixed bath or shower?
 
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The logical thing to supply is a high value guaranteed to be a bit less than the max, so as to cope with increasing losses at the far end.
It's a bit more complicated than that. In general the DNO would try and run at as high a voltage as possible as that minimises their I²R losses in the network.
However, with the prevalence of embedded generation - notably solar PV - the power flows can change and I suspect quite a few circuits end up supplying a negative load at times (if you see what I mean). So they've been forced to adjust voltages down in many places to avoid exceeding the maximum during "peak sunshine".
 
Just to clarify that last post ...
If we ignore for a moment the rest of the network, and just think about the distribution cable running along a single street, and lets say there are 15 houses, 5 on each phase. So the DNO sets stuff up so that under no load there's 250V at the feed end of the cable, and under moderate load there's only 230V at the far end - yeah I know, I'm making this up as I go along, it's only to illustrate the issue.
All fine, the users always get something within the allowable voltage range.
Now one or two of the houses on a phase get a 4kW solar PV array installed. Mid-day on a week day when everyone is at work, the sun is blazing - don't laugh, we did have a few weeks of that not long ago and we ended up complaining :whistle: So now, instead of there being a power flow FROM the DNO along the cable, there is now going to be a power flow TO the DNO along the cable. Again, ignoring the rest of the network and assuming there's still 250V at the DNO feed end of the cable, the voltage at the houses along that cable will now be higher - potentially going over the 254V upper limit.
So now, the DNO gets complaints from those with the PV arrays that their inverters are cutting out on over-voltage. They have to go back to the nearest tap changer and lower the voltage in the network to allow for this. I don't know if they routinely have taps on the local 11kV/415V transformers - if not then it would go back to the next level at the 33/11kV transformer and affect a wider area.
I could see some interesting situations. Suppose there's a small hamlet at the end of a long distribution cable, and they have night storage heaters because there's no mains gas - I did know someone living in just such a situation. At night, the voltage will drop "quite a bit" due to the heaters which will restrict the DNOs options for lowering the off-load supply voltage. If one (or more) of the residents then gets solar PV installed, the DNO then has to deal with not only the large volt drops under load, but also the potentially large voltage lifts when the sun is shining.
So it's easy to see that embedded generation is far from a "zero cost" to the distribution network.

And that's before you start to think about protection. The distribution cables are protected at the supply end by fuses, put a load of embedded generation onto a branched network and you could potentially significantly increase the fault current in some of those branches - we don't know how fast the PV inverters will react and shut down when there's a fault that drags the voltage down.
 
we don't know how fast the PV inverters will react and shut down when there's a fault that drags the voltage down.

I believe it's a fraction of a second; then they begin the restart process which includes testing the grid and array voltages before establishing reconnection. I can't remember, but I probably read it in a tech doc from an inverter manufacturer. Possibly I imagined it.
 
... just think about the distribution cable running along a single street, and lets say there are 15 houses, 5 on each phase. So the DNO sets stuff up so that under no load there's 250V at the feed end of the cable, and under moderate load there's only 230V at the far end - yeah I know, I'm making this up as I go along, it's only to illustrate the issue.
I have to say that I've never really understood the arithmetic of this issue....

If it's TN-C-S, then the Ze (and hence the distribution "R1+Rn") 'at the far end' could be 0.35Ω. If the 'last' house were getting the minimum permitted voltage (216.2V) and the first house the maximum permitted (253V), then, if the load were all 'near the end', that voltage drop of 36.8V would correspond to a load of not much more than 100A (about 105A if the load were all at the end), and probably no more than around double that if the load was fairly evenly distributed between houses.

Particularly given that I think (but am not sure) that these cables often supply appreciably more than then 5 houses per phase you mention, I would have thought that it's not unthinkable that those currents could be exceeded at 'shower time', 'cooking time' or (in some cases) 'night storage heater time'.

I don't think I've ever knowingly lived near the end of a DNO supply run, so I don't know what sort of voltage variations such houses see in practice. My present house is fairly close to the transformer and the voltage is usually around 244V-245V, and I don't recall ever having seen it below 240V.
... I don't know if they routinely have taps on the local 11kV/415V transformers ....
I find it very hard to believe that the 'pole top' ones could have - they are far too 'small and simple', aren't they?

Kind Regards, John
 

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