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Hello...what is the difference between ring and radial socket,why and where would they be used and what is the max load {amps} they can take in an Irish domestic 2.5 circuit?...Thank You.
sockets!
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A ring main is exactly what it says, starts at the cu and loops round the sockets and back to the cu.Rated at 32A A radial just goes out like the spoke on a wheel to one or more sockets, usually rated at 20A.
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How many sockets can i put on a ring and a radial circuit,is there a limit?would it depend on how many appliances that are plugged into the socket circuit and how many amps the appliances draw from the supply?
How long is a piece of string? How many do you want? As long as the demand does not exceed the capacity of the cb in the consumer unit. Seriously nowadays with seperate rings for upstairs/downstairs and kitchen you can have a substantial number (enough for normal requirments)
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would it depend on the amount of amps that the appliance draws that determines the amount of sockets?? let just say hypothetically that i have two appliances that need 10amps to operate...would this mean that i could only have two socket as they are plugged into a 20amp circuit?? 
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i have done a fair bit of research to be honest.i do alot of DIY and it bugs me when i dont have a full understanding of something
In Ireland radials are the norm for sockets, but rings are permitted except in kitchens where a minimum of 2 radials are required.
20amp radials can have a maximum of 10 sockets and can only serve a maximum of 2 rooms (except kitchens)
Rings are connected to a 32A breaker, both ends of the circuit connect to the breaker I.e it's fed from both ends. They can serve any number of sockets in a 100sq meter area.
For practical purposes you should calculate the expected load for the circuit. There's no point in skimping and ending up with tripping breakers.
Irish regs and practice strongly prefers the use of radial socket circuits. They also tend to be easier to install in larger homes as they don't need to loop back to the distribution panel. It also makes fault finding easier in the event of a triping breaker.
Also ALL socket circuits must be protected by a 30mA RCD.
Spurs to rings are banned in Ireland btw under current regs.
With regard to kitchens, a minimum of 10 sockets (double gang is counted as 1) and absolute minimum of two radials! No rings!!
20amp radials can have a maximum of 10 sockets and can only serve a maximum of 2 rooms (except kitchens)
Rings are connected to a 32A breaker, both ends of the circuit connect to the breaker I.e it's fed from both ends. They can serve any number of sockets in a 100sq meter area.
For practical purposes you should calculate the expected load for the circuit. There's no point in skimping and ending up with tripping breakers.
Irish regs and practice strongly prefers the use of radial socket circuits. They also tend to be easier to install in larger homes as they don't need to loop back to the distribution panel. It also makes fault finding easier in the event of a triping breaker.
Also ALL socket circuits must be protected by a 30mA RCD.
Spurs to rings are banned in Ireland btw under current regs.
With regard to kitchens, a minimum of 10 sockets (double gang is counted as 1) and absolute minimum of two radials! No rings!!
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hello....to calculate the expected load,would i just add the amount of amps that the appliances use and see if its less that the protective device for the circuit to be safe and to prevent tripping??
no it doesn't work quite like that.
it is unlikely that you would overload 2 radial circuits in a standard kitchen so long as the cooker has its own dedicated radial supply.
I don't know the regs for Irish installs so would recommend you ask solair anything unique to the irish setup as he seems to know the rules applicable over there
it is unlikely that you would overload 2 radial circuits in a standard kitchen so long as the cooker has its own dedicated radial supply.
I don't know the regs for Irish installs so would recommend you ask solair anything unique to the irish setup as he seems to know the rules applicable over there
With regard to the design of circuits, you basically need to consider a few things.
1) For a kitchen you will typically have a 32amp supply for the Cooker, which is dedicated to the cooker and cannot have any sockets connected to it. i.e. the UK style cooker control unit isn't permitted, we just use a double pole switch near-by.
2) For an average kitchen, two radials will be quite sufficient for the sockets, however, you need to consider how many appliances you have. For example, if you have a washer and dryer in the kitchen, it's normal practice that they'd have their own dedicated radial circuit, so you would need to consider installing a 3rd radial.
Again, it entirely depends on what you're installing.
Basically, washing machines / dishwasher and dryers don't actually draw that much of an inductive load, i.e. the motor, the peak will come when the machine is heating. Most of these appliances contain a large heater, up to 2.2kW.
Calculate the load by reading the information plate on the appliance, it will give you a rating in watts. Divide this number by 230 volts and you'll get the peak ampage drawn.
Then just make sure that you've enough circuits to provide power to allow you to run all those machines simultaneously.
Usually, a washer and dryer will not draw more than 20A. However, you'd really be pushing it if you try to install a washer, dryer and dishwasher on a single radial.
Also, when you're installing the sockets in the kitchen, make sure that you don't accidentally put all three e heavy appliances on the same circuit!
3) Also, under the new regs, if you're installing a freezer, to prevent spoilage of food, you can opt to run a single socket fed from a 16A MCBO. This will not trip with the rest of the sockets in the event of an RCD trip.
Basically, consider how many major appliances you're installing!
For normal domestic sockets, outside of the kitchen, you typically use a single radial for a large room with lots of sockets e.g. your living room / dining room etc, ( often this will feed one or two sockets in a near-by hall area too, you do not need to consider a hall as a separate room, unless you're planning to run serious amounts of plug-in heating or something..))
Bedrooms / less heavily used rooms typically share 1 radial for two rooms. This is the maximum number of rooms that a radial can serve.
Increasingly, it's common to install a dedicated 20 amp radial on a MCBO (Combined breaker / RCD device) to feed your office / study area, this prevents IT disasters in the event of a wet iron / kettle tripping the RCD. It really only becomes an issue if you've got a home office, or are really fussy about your IT equipment.
Our RCD has only tripped about once in 5 years, and that was due to a wet iron. So, in general it's not really a big problem and when it does trip it usually indicates that something's seriously faulty i.e. wet iron, leaky washing machine, leaky dishwasher etc will usually be the culprit!
Irish distribution panels differ quite substantially from their UK counterparts.
First of all, there's a master breaker / main fuse on the panel. This is designed to trip/blow in the event of the panel being overloaded. In the UK and in most other countries, they rely on the service fuse for this.
Secondly, we use 10A radials for lighting, with a maximum of 10 points per radial.
You will typically see 6, 8 or 10 radials X 20A radials feeding sockets, usually labeled for each room / each group of rooms being served.
If you find this confusing, it's really advisable to contact a qualified, registered electrician.
Because of the serious fall-off in house building in Ireland due to the property crash, there are loads of sparks out there who will consider any job, no matter how small and they're also much better value than they used to be.
You can get a list, by contacting RECI (www.reci.ie) (Register of Electrical Contractors of Ireland)
Or, if you're stuck, try www.bidjob.ie or www.tenderme.ie, both sites let you put up your job specs, and trades people will tender for them.
Serious modifications to a wiring system really should only be undertaken by an electrician. If you're going beyond installing a couple of extra sockets, I would strongly suggest getting someone professional in.
For major work you will require a completion certificate, and your insurance company can come looking for this in the event of a house fire. So be very careful!
1) For a kitchen you will typically have a 32amp supply for the Cooker, which is dedicated to the cooker and cannot have any sockets connected to it. i.e. the UK style cooker control unit isn't permitted, we just use a double pole switch near-by.
2) For an average kitchen, two radials will be quite sufficient for the sockets, however, you need to consider how many appliances you have. For example, if you have a washer and dryer in the kitchen, it's normal practice that they'd have their own dedicated radial circuit, so you would need to consider installing a 3rd radial.
Again, it entirely depends on what you're installing.
Basically, washing machines / dishwasher and dryers don't actually draw that much of an inductive load, i.e. the motor, the peak will come when the machine is heating. Most of these appliances contain a large heater, up to 2.2kW.
Calculate the load by reading the information plate on the appliance, it will give you a rating in watts. Divide this number by 230 volts and you'll get the peak ampage drawn.
Then just make sure that you've enough circuits to provide power to allow you to run all those machines simultaneously.
Usually, a washer and dryer will not draw more than 20A. However, you'd really be pushing it if you try to install a washer, dryer and dishwasher on a single radial.
Also, when you're installing the sockets in the kitchen, make sure that you don't accidentally put all three e heavy appliances on the same circuit!
3) Also, under the new regs, if you're installing a freezer, to prevent spoilage of food, you can opt to run a single socket fed from a 16A MCBO. This will not trip with the rest of the sockets in the event of an RCD trip.
Basically, consider how many major appliances you're installing!
For normal domestic sockets, outside of the kitchen, you typically use a single radial for a large room with lots of sockets e.g. your living room / dining room etc, ( often this will feed one or two sockets in a near-by hall area too, you do not need to consider a hall as a separate room, unless you're planning to run serious amounts of plug-in heating or something..))
Bedrooms / less heavily used rooms typically share 1 radial for two rooms. This is the maximum number of rooms that a radial can serve.
Increasingly, it's common to install a dedicated 20 amp radial on a MCBO (Combined breaker / RCD device) to feed your office / study area, this prevents IT disasters in the event of a wet iron / kettle tripping the RCD. It really only becomes an issue if you've got a home office, or are really fussy about your IT equipment.
Our RCD has only tripped about once in 5 years, and that was due to a wet iron. So, in general it's not really a big problem and when it does trip it usually indicates that something's seriously faulty i.e. wet iron, leaky washing machine, leaky dishwasher etc will usually be the culprit!
Irish distribution panels differ quite substantially from their UK counterparts.
First of all, there's a master breaker / main fuse on the panel. This is designed to trip/blow in the event of the panel being overloaded. In the UK and in most other countries, they rely on the service fuse for this.
Secondly, we use 10A radials for lighting, with a maximum of 10 points per radial.
You will typically see 6, 8 or 10 radials X 20A radials feeding sockets, usually labeled for each room / each group of rooms being served.
If you find this confusing, it's really advisable to contact a qualified, registered electrician.
Because of the serious fall-off in house building in Ireland due to the property crash, there are loads of sparks out there who will consider any job, no matter how small and they're also much better value than they used to be.
You can get a list, by contacting RECI (www.reci.ie) (Register of Electrical Contractors of Ireland)
Or, if you're stuck, try www.bidjob.ie or www.tenderme.ie, both sites let you put up your job specs, and trades people will tender for them.
Serious modifications to a wiring system really should only be undertaken by an electrician. If you're going beyond installing a couple of extra sockets, I would strongly suggest getting someone professional in.
For major work you will require a completion certificate, and your insurance company can come looking for this in the event of a house fire. So be very careful!
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Thanks for the great reply...your a gent
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