Soldier F.

[Vinty]

no equivalence

IDF are not a peacekeeping force

90% of the deaths in N.Ireland were caused by terrorists.
In Gaza over 90% of deaths are caused by the IDF.
The British army were in N.Ireland in a policing role and not an offensive role.
Overall , by disrupting the majority of IRA operations and jailing terrorists the security forces saved 1000's of lives in N.Ireland and the British mainland.

 

[Vinty]

The judge also said in his verdict that he was satisfied that soldiers had lost all sense of military discipline and opened fire with intent to kill and that “those responsible should hang their heads in shame”.

Mickey McKinney, brother of William McKinney, one of the two victims named in the case, denounced the verdict outside the courtroom on Thursday. “Soldier F has been discharged from the defendant’s criminal dock, but it is one million miles away from being an honourable discharge,” McKinney said. “Soldier F created two young widows on Bloody Sunday, he orphaned 12 children, and he deprived dozens of siblings of a loving brother,”

“The blame lies firmly with the British state, with the RUC [the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the Northern Irish police], who failed to investigate the murders on Bloody Sunday properly, or indeed at all,” McKinney said.

At the time the police were stretched to breaking point investigating IRA murders and bombings which were happening every day.

 

[Odds]

At the time the police were stretched to breaking point investigating IRA murders and bombings which were happening every day.

Paratroop regiments are elite units designed for different tactics than regulars; unsuitable to operate in among civilians.

 

[Vinty]

Faced with what the soldiers were faced with it is of no surprise this happened. Para’s are highly trained killing machines. Throw rocks at them and petrol bombs, they won’t be throwing them back.

That's true.
Soldiering and policing are two separate disciplines.
Soldiers don't make good policemen.

 

[Vinty]

Paratroop regiments are elite units designed for different tactics than regulars; unsuitable to operate in among civilians.

At the time the authorities had no choice but to use the army to support the police.
The police are trained to police civilian society, the IRA were using military grade weapons and explosives against them,
The use of the army was unavoidable.

 

[blup]

As I have pointed out before, the Judge who acquitted the veteren , said that the evidence presented by the prosecution fell well short of what is required to secure a successful prosecution.

Normally historic criminal cases can only be reopened if there is compelling new evidence to justify reopening the case.
The new evidence has to be of a quality that would give the prosecution a reasonable chance of securing a conviction.
In the case of soldier F there was no new evidence, in fact there was less evidence than there was 50 years ago when the incidents were first investigated by the police.

There is a case generally for criminal offences in the UK to have a statute of limitations, as in European countries and America. Doubtless justice was not done for all the people affected here, but hopefully the judge's wise and balanced decision will draw this all to a close

 

[Notch7]

Exactly this ^^^^^^^^^

I hate it when people try and equate soldiers who kill with domestic murder

Soldiers that did tours in NI were under a huge amount of stress, they faced being shot or blown up 24 hours a day -and back in 1972 the amount of IRA violence was really high, hundreds of British soldiers died / injured


I find it very upsetting that a soldier who was sent there to do a job should be facing the prospect of jail 53 years later because of political witch hunt

I do feel very sorry for the families of the victims on Bloody Sunday and realise they should want justice to be served, but I dont feel justice is served by a witch hunt on soldiers 53 years later, especially given the "evidence" the only evidence was an unreliable account given by 2 other soldiers

this should have been put to bed decades ago

 

[Knave of Hearts]

no equivalence

IDF are not a peacekeeping force

From a Republican perspective, the English were as much an occupying force as the Israelis are in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

That is the problem, bringing prosecutions against ex soldiers without a realistic chance of a conviction brings the judicial system into disrepute.

The perception of the public is the charges are malicious and part of a witch hunt for political purposes.

No, The problem is someone is guilty of murder, and it's right that someone stands trial foe that murder.
We wouldn't normally give up on solving someone's murder because the evidence is flimsy. Look at the Stephen Lawrence murder, it's still going on.
We shouldn't give up on finding the culprit, just because they're soldiers. If there's a wall of silence, the whole squad or regiment should be penalised or even disbanded. And I'm pretty sure that many are aware of who the culprits are.
If it's a peace keeping force, there should have been an internal enquiry and inspection of firearms when they returned to barracks.
It's been a cover up from start to finish by the Army and the government

 

[Knave of Hearts]

please stop being weird, Morqthana is you

You're OK sometimes, Notch. But occasionally you join the troons*, and you let yourself down.

*combination of loon and troll.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

you do not want an honest discussion that puts the situation in context

Don't be daft, and don't be a troon.

the British soldiers in Ireland were a peacekeeping force that faced danger every day, hundreds were injured and killed

Not the danger they faced, nor the injuries or deaths they suffered does not determine what they were.
From a loyalist viewpoint they were a peacekeeping force, but from a republican viewpoint they were an occupying force,

when you actually want an honest discussion, then we can debate it

It's you that is resorting to silly comments.
You want a discussion with your predetermined political ideology as a given. It's not. And it's not a sensible debate if you insist that everyone shares your starting base.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

The decision to prosecute was made in 2019 but was dropped, for some reason it was reopened in 2022 even though evidentially nothing had changed.

Instagram https://share.google/bAsIrA8AYBPxE4rfo

So it wasn't reopened, it was never concluded before.

 

[Notch7]

The problem is someone is guilty of murder

well thats not true because the judge ruled there was no murder

We wouldn't normally give up on solving someone's murder because the evidence is flimsy. Look at the Stephen Lawrence murder

and there we have it

another example of false equivalence

a death caused by a soldier in a conflict is not necessarily a murder

 

[Notch7]

if you insist that everyone shares your starting base.

you are the one that wants to start with the false premise of "getting away with murder"

 

[Notch7]

Not the danger they faced, nor the injuries or deaths they suffered does not determine what they were.

yes it does

if they werent a peacekeeping force but an invading force they wouldve just killed every IRA person

From a loyalist viewpoint they were a peacekeeping force, but from a republican viewpoint they were an occupying force,

............does not determine what they were

you arent very good at this are you...............you keep acusing others of what you are doing. Get yer own house in order matey