Soldier F.

[fillyboy]

Nobody is disputing or downplaying what they faced or the losses they suffered.

The question is should they be allowed to get away with murder?

When asked about whether the IRA should be allowed to get away with murder, you touched on context and the potato famine for some bizarre reason, in other words 'the Brits had it coming'.

I recall you taking a similar stance on Jews in a long since deleted thread.

You really are a very sick person.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

Are you aving a laff?

The IRA were brutal terrorists and involved in organised crime such as protection rackets.

They could also be described as freedom fighter.

Here we go again.
The term 'terrorist' is merely a label used in a political ideology.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

...

However was justice ever served for the 772 British soldiers killed by paramilitary attacks

They were perceived as the occupying army on the orders of their political masters.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

Yes you are

You have taken the simplistic binary argument that it either is or is not murder.

The reality is that young British soldiers were stationed in Northern Ireland where they faced paramilitary attacks with constant shootings and bombs - these soldiers faced huge stress and they were only there because of the IRA.

That doesn't give them carte blanche to shoot unarmed civilians.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

Will never forget this one, they were only children.

1971 Scottish soldiers' killings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They were still soldier of the occupiers.
As serving soldiers their age is irrlevant. They were considered old enough to carry arms to to shoot terrorists/freedom fighters.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

When asked about whether the IRA should be allowed to get away with murder, you touched on context and the potato famine for some bizarre reason, in other words 'the Brits had it coming'.

I recall you taking a similar stance on Jews in a long since deleted thread.

You really are a very sick person.

You're conflating the issue, as you normally do.
it wasn't morqthana who raised the issue of the potato famine.

If we're being encouraged to take account of context...

Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Large amounts of food were exported from Ireland during the famine and the refusal of London to bar such exports, as had been done on previous occasions, was an immediate and continuing source of controversy, contributing to anti-British sentiment and the campaign for independence. Additionally, the famine indirectly resulted in tens of thousands of households being evicted, exacerbated by a provision forbidding access to workhouse aid while in possession of more than one-quarter acre of land...."

In fact morqthana dismissed the potato famine as irrelevant.

The context of the animosity between sections of the Irish population and Great Britain is irrelevant to the question of whether British troops should be allowed to get away with murder.

Now who's the sick person?

 

[morqthana]

When asked about whether the IRA should be allowed to get away with murder, you touched on context and the potato famine for some bizarre reason, in other words 'the Brits had it coming'.

I wonder why you think it's OK to join in a discussion when you can't be bothered to do an even borderline competent job of reading.

I've not been asked whether the IRA should be allowed to get away with murder. Notch 7 scurrilously claimed that I was OK with it, but his falsehoods are not reality.

As for the potato famine, it wasn't I who introduced that, nor claimed that it created any context, it was StephenStephen:

If we're being encouraged to take account of context...

Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Large amounts of food were exported from Ireland during the famine and the refusal of London to bar such exports, as had been done on previous occasions, was an immediate and continuing source of controversy, contributing to anti-British sentiment and the campaign for independence. Additionally, the famine indirectly resulted in tens of thousands of households being evicted, exacerbated by a provision forbidding access to workhouse aid while in possession of more than one-quarter acre of land...."

All I said about that was :

The context of the animosity between sections of the Irish population and Great Britain is irrelevant to the question of whether British troops should be allowed to get away with murder.

If you've got an issue with someone raising the topic of the potato famine it would make more sense for you to take it up with the person who raised it, not with somebody who didn't.

Can you not see that?

I recall you taking a similar stance on Jews in a long since deleted thread.

I doubt you do.

You really are a very sick person.

Well - typical of you to go for personal insults when you find yourself unable to discuss things rationally.

 

[morqthana]

Yes you are

You have taken the simplistic binary argument that it either is or is not murder.

No.

The issue of whether an act is or is not murder is for the law and the courts to define and determine.

I'm asking whether, if an act was murder, whether a soldier should be allowed to get away with it.

Bear in mind, and please think about this carefully - if you say that he should, then you are saying there is no line he may not cross. None whatsoever. That there is no act of killing, not matter how extreme, or unlikely, or impossible to imagine happening, that he should be held to account for.

None.

Whatsoever.

Is that your position?

The reality is that young British soldiers were stationed in Northern Ireland where they faced paramilitary attacks with constant shootings and bombs - these soldiers faced huge stress and they were only there because of the IRA.

I think you'll find that I've already said I'm not denying or downplaying any of that.

You'll also find I have categorically refuted your remarkably unpleasant accusation that I am

fine with IRA getting away with murder

 

[morqthana]

You are pushing a false question.

It is not a false question. How can it possibly be "false" to ask if people should get away with murder?

Let's take your previous post:

I once knew a Lance Corporal who had done tours in Ireland, he told me stories of how awful it was, the fact you could not trust anybody, for example the IRA would try and get women and children to give “presents” to soldiers, which would turn out to be explosive packages.

How is it a false question to ask whether soldiers should, for example, get away with murdering those women and children?

Since you seem to be struggling with this concept - I'm not saying anything about what circumstances of a soldier killing them should be counted as murder, just whether you think there could be any.

 

[fillyboy]

It is not a false question. How can it possibly be "false" to ask if people should get away with murder?

Let's take your previous post:



How is it a false question to ask whether soldiers should, for example, get away with murdering those women and children?

Since you seem to be struggling with this concept - I'm not saying anything about what circumstances of a soldier killing them should be counted as murder, just whether you think there could be any.

But you don't question the killing by the IRA, the bombs targeting innocent civilians. You excuse it by referring to the terrorists as freedom fighters.

 

[morqthana]

But you don't question the killing by the IRA, the bombs targeting innocent civilians.

Those are counted as murder, and despite Notch's appalling accusation I'm not questioning that, nor am I OK with those things, nor am I asking if the IRA should be allowed to get away with them.

Why do you find it so hard to pay attention?

You excuse it by referring to the terrorists as freedom fighters.

No, I did not refer to them as that.

Are you pathologically unable to tell the truth?

 

[Risteard]

Northern Ireland

So Ireland then.

 

[Risteard]

I don’t understand why Northern Ireland the country should need justice

If you mean the families concerned, I can understand that.

However was justice ever served for the 772 British soldiers killed by paramilitary attacks

It's not a country. The country is Ireland.

 

[morqthana]

They are not synonymous.

Although to be fair, the confusion is not helped by the (as was) Royal Ulster Constabulary, who did not do much policing in Counties Cavan, Donegal, or Monaghan, or the Ulster Defence Association, who didn't do much "defending" there, or the Ulster Unionist party who don't contest elections there, and so on.

 

[Odds]

I wonder why you think it's OK to join in a discussion when you can't be bothered to do an even borderline competent job of reading.

I've not been asked whether the IRA should be allowed to get away with murder. Notch 7 scurrilously claimed that I was OK with it, but his falsehoods are not reality.

As for the potato famine, it wasn't I who introduced that, nor claimed that it created any context, it was StephenStephen:

All I said about that was :

If you've got an issue with someone raising the topic of the potato famine it would make more sense for you to take it up with the person who raised it, not with somebody who didn't.

Can you not see that?

I doubt you do.

Well - typical of you to go for personal insults when you find yourself unable to discuss things rationally.

The Famine is not irrelevant in the context of the struggle for Irish independence. The Irish have long memories and view history in a different light than we do in England. Revenge killings have been a part of that history since Mick the Knife nicked Paddy McGinty's goat back in the time of Queen Medb. The IRA split into factions over the course of the Troubles and some were more bloody minded than others. Water under the bridge to us but those waters run deeper than we can see and y'all should mind where you step into them.