Spured socket

[simps100]

Hey

I need to do some work on our kitchen sockets (changing the single socket in this image to a double)

I’ve been looking over pictures from when our kitchen was fitted a few years ago, all the work was done by a qualified electrician / signed off etc but from looking at the pictures I took during the refit I have a couple of questions.

1. It looks like the spur they added they’ve added 2 cables - is there any reason why this would be my understanding was it would only need a single cable to a spur?

2. In this image it looks like there’s already an existing spur (the single socket I’m wanting to change to a double) it was my understanding you should only spur one socket from an existing - I’m not saying the electrician has done something wrong I’m just looking to better understand more than anything and be confident changing this single socket to a double won’t be an issue.

Thanks!

 

[terryplumb]

Can't tell much from your pic .
Is the double gang socket part of a ring final circuit ?
Are there 2 cables going from it to the single socket below it ?
What is the accessory to the left of the double gang socket ?
What are you intending to use the new double socket to supply ?

 

[simps100]

Can't tell much from your pic .
Is the double gang socket part of a ring final circuit ?
Are there 2 cables going from it to the single socket below it ?
What is the accessory to the left of the double gang socket ?
What are you intending to use the new double socket to supply ?

The double gang socket they installed has the 2 cables running to it in that picture - i am wondering if this suggests the electrician made the socket they installed part of the ring rather than a spur?

Only one cable goes to the single socket below so I am confident that is spured from that double gang socket.

The fused spur to the left of the double gang is the boiler switch

I need 2 additional sockets for a boiling water tap boiler and one for the water chiller - assuming the new socket the electricians installed is actually on the ring and not a spur I could spur from this one which would be easier.

I found another picture taken during the works at another part of the kitchen - can see an existing double socket and what looks like a spur coming from that and then the 2 cables going behind the plaster board going up to another new socket they installed at the time the kitchen was fitted - again I’m wondering if it suggests they made this part of the ring rather than a spur - although appreciate it’s impossible to tell 100% from these images!

 

[JohnW2]

I need to do some work on our kitchen sockets (changing the single socket in this image to a double)

OK. I find it difficult in working out what is going on from your photo, but ....

1. It looks like the spur they added they’ve added 2 cables - is there any reason why this would be my understanding was it would only need a single cable to a spur?

A 'spur' does, indeed, only need one cable. If there are two, it is more likely that the ring has been 'extended', rather than that a spur has been taken from it.

2. In this image it looks like there’s already an existing spur (the single socket I’m wanting to change to a double) it was my understanding you should only spur one socket from an existing - I’m not saying the electrician has done something wrong I’m just looking to better understand more than anything and be confident changing this single socket to a double won’t be an issue.

An unfused spur (cable) from a ring circuit can, indeed, feed only one (single or double) socket). However, there is nothing 'wrong' with having more than one spur (i.e. two or more 'spur cables') originating from the same socket, provided only that all of the conductors (wires) will fit into the terminals of the socket.

In terms of what you want to do, changing the single socket to a double is not a problem, whether or not it is on a 'spur' - since, as above, an unfused spur is allowed to feed a double socket.

Kind Regards, John

 

[terryplumb]

If you need 2 ADDITIONAL sockets ,you should ascertain if it is a ring final circuit ,and if it is extend the ring.

 

[JohnW2]

I need 2 additional sockets for a boiling water tap boiler and one for the water chiller - assuming the new socket the electricians installed is actually on the ring and not a spur I could spur from this one which would be easier.

Indeed. As I said, if there are two cables going from the vicinity of the 'source' socket to the single one, then the ltter is almost certainly 'on the ring' in which case, as you suggest, you could spur a new double socket from it. Alternatively, as terry has suggested, you could extend the ring from that single socket - but I personally would not see the point in that 'extra work' (but some people don't like spurs ).

Kind Regards, John

 

[simps100]

Great thank you both that makes sense - spurring from that will be 10 times easier as it’s surface mounted at the back of the cupboard and closer so where I actually need the power - the single one is channeled in so would take a lot more mess and work!

 

[JohnW2]

Great thank you both that makes sense - spurring from that will be 10 times easier as it’s surface mounted at the back of the cupboard and closer so where I actually need the power - the single one is channeled in so would take a lot more mess and work!

OK - but I'm getting confused now. For a start, I thought we were talking about 'the single socket' - and, unless I'm missing something, I can't see any surface-mounted sockets in either of your photos!

Kind Regards, John

 

[terryplumb]

As I read your posts ,There is only one cable going to the single socket in your original picture ? If so you can't run another socket from that single socket.
I have only just seen you second picture that just further complicates the set up.

 

[JohnW2]

I have only just seen you second picture that just further complicates the set up.

It does, but that second picture apparently relates to "another part of the kitchen", so I'm not sure of its relevance!

Kind Regards, John

 

[terryplumb]

It does, but that second picture apparently relates to "another part of the kitchen", so I'm not sure of its relevance!

Kind Regards, John

That makes two of us John !

 

[simps100]

Sorry I am complicating it - best to ignore the 2nd image - I was hoping it would give a clearer indication of what they did in other parts!

So the 2 cables in the original photo I posted are both running into the back of the surface mounted socket which is in the cupboard which I originally thought was a spur - but by the sounds of things it’s actually very likely this is not a spur but they extended the ring meaning I can spur from this - this means I’d leave the single socket (which is definitely a spur) alone and make no changes there.

Sorry for confusing things when your trying to help!

 

[terryplumb]

Ok ,so there is a socket that we haven't seen a pic of ,and it's inside a cupboard,and it has 2 twin and earth cables connected to it. Establish what circuit it is on ,what amperage breaker or fuse protects the circuit ,and is that circuit protected by an RCD ,or RCBO.

 

[simps100]

Ok ,so there is a socket that we haven't seen a pic of ,and it's inside a cupboard,and it has 2 twin and earth cables connected to it. Establish what circuit it is on ,what amperage breaker or fuse protects the circuit ,and is that circuit protected by an RCD ,or RCBO.

Yep that is correct, the socket inside the cupboard has 2 twin and earth cables connected to it- it’s on a 32A breaker and is RCD protected

 

[terryplumb]

Then you need to do some continuity tests on the 2 cables to confirm they are part of the ring . If they are ,you can spur from them to another double socket.