Spurs in kitchen

[glennpierce]

Hi I have just moved into a new property

I have attached an image of what I think our electrics look like.

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• glennpierce
• 22 Apr 2011
• 1

I have tried to draw double sockets larger than single ones.

The consumer unit indicates there are two ring mains and It looks that way by my testing.
The consumer also unit indicates there may have been a circuit for the cooker once. The RCD has since been taped over.

I have indicated the two ring mains by the red rectangles in the image.

I am concerned about the four double sockets on the spurs in the kitchen.

Could put FCU's on the spurs. ?

In the kitchen we have a separate fridge and freezer and a standalone cooker (13 amps) , washing machine, kettle, toaster and microwave

Any advice would be great.

 

[ericmark]

I have seen side to side split before but seems strange to have no sockets in kitchen on a ring. What method did you use to test? Is it possible you have a figure of 8?

The problem is to alter any circuits in a kitchen will come under Part P rules even if the work is to improve the system.

Because of LABC charges therefore even if you know how to test and inspect likely cheaper not to DIY.

 

[glennpierce]

Well I tested by switching of the ring mains one at a time to find which the plugs are on. I can see the two spur cables as they both come down from upstairs into two separate cupboard's and then they travel along the floor until they go to the sockets. The cables are not in trunking or fixed to the wall when they exit the cupboards which I don't like either. Both cables terminate at the plugs.
Even though the consumer unit indicates ring mains with labels I also checked a socket upstairs on the same circuit as the kitchen sockets. I did a continuity check between the two live cables to the plug to check it wasn't a radial circuit.

Sorry not sure what a figure of 8 is.

Would the regulations force me to get a new circuit for the kitchen or
can a qualified person install FCU's ?

The kitchen is in fairly good state and I would want the cost or damage of installing a new circuit.

Thanks

 

[flameport]

FCUs for the two sets of kitchen sockets would comply, but in reality would be useless, as you will only have a maximum of 13A for each set of sockets. This means you will be replacing fuses often, unless you are very careful about what is used at the same time.

If the wiring is in the layout shown, a better fix would be to add another cable between the two 'end' sockets in the kitchen, and remove the cable between the two sockets in the bedroom:

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• flameport
• 23 Apr 2011
• 1

however this will require testing to confirm the layout of the circuit is actually like that in reality, and will still be notifiable.

A figure 8 would be a ring with a second ring attached to it - what you would get by connecting the two sets of kitchen sockets together, but not removing the cable between the upstairs sockets.
A dangerous mess, since the interconnection point can easily be overloaded, and it then becomes very difficult to establish exactly what the layout of the circuit is.

 

[ericmark]

Thank you flameport

To test a ring, or radial, or spur needs some disconnection and testing with power off with a meter.

Although you can get an idea that a circuit is a radial or spur as there is only one set of cables going to socket you need to look at size of protection device and do some tests in the consumer unit to find if radial or spur.

A radial is protected against overload at origin.
A Spur is protected against overload at termination. i.e. the fuse in the plug. As a result it is limited to 3 meters. (433.2.2)

It is not unknown for houses to be wired as radials using 20A protective device at consumer unit rather than a 32A protective device.

The procedure for removing wires and forming them into a loop then testing with a special low ohm meter at every socket to identify which sockets are part of the ring and which are spurs off the ring is complex. It is also sometimes hard to locate fused connection units (FCU) which provide radials (not spurs) from a larger supply.

If you are worried then get an "Electrical installation condition report" (EICR) this was called a "Periodic inspection report" (PIR) and would normally include testing to find what sockets are fed from a ring and what sockets are fed from a spur or radial. These should be completed every 10 years or change of occupant. It will always find faults mainly as the regulations have changed but they should also indicate how dangerous and if it needs correcting or just bearing in mind when any future work is done.

 

[glennpierce]

Ok Thanks Guys.

I think I will get it looked at. Flameport's suggestion sounds like it wouldn't be too disruptive it the circuit is like I think and I certainly concur about having to keep replacing fuses or disconnections devices.