Ssssssshhhhhh, don't mention Reform.

[JohnD]

leftie nonsense.

Workers rights and fair pay?

Yeah, right.

 

[JohnD]

"
Just over a century ago, an up-and-coming minister in his mid-30s stood up in the House of Commons and delivered a withering indictment of the outcome of a free market in pay. He argued that the state should now intervene in defence of living wages:

It is a serious national evil that any class of His Majesty’s subjects should receive less than a living wage in return for their utmost exertions.

The young Winston Churchill. Imperial War Museums

The speaker was an unlikely young firebrand, the grandson of a duke. He was one Winston Churchill, then a Liberal, introducing the Trades Boards Bill of 1909. It introduced minimum wages, in selected trades, at a national level for the first time in Britain. Churchill’s words came at a period when income inequalities were close to their 20th-century peak. And the cosy establishment consensus that capitalism worked was facing unprecedented moral and political challenges, not least by the rise of the labour movement. Hence Churchill’s indictment:

It was formerly supposed that the working of the laws of supply and demand would naturally regulate or eliminate that evil and ultimately produce a fair price …
But where you have what we call sweated trades, you have no organisation, no parity of bargaining, the good employer is undercut by the bad, and the bad employer is undercut by the worst. Where those conditions prevail you have not a condition of progress, but a condition of progressive degeneration.

 

[Lirefighter]

Workers rights and fair pay?

Yeah, right.

You lefties really are absolute morons.
Why would an employer pay their workers whatever it is you deem to be 'fair pay' when an immigrant will do the same work for half the 'fair pay'.

The only thing fair about pay, is that the employer pays what you agreed to work for.
Say you have an interview, get accepted for the job and you agree to the terms, being 4wks holiday/Yr, turn up on time and we'll pay you £100 for an 8hr shift.. paid monthly 35hrs/wk with the possibility of overtime.
What's not fair about that?

 

[Notch7]

Reform councillor thinks Andrew Tate is a great bloke

Alexander Jones

 

[Notch7]

You seem like a successful guy. Why are you so bothered about people who earn less than you. Is it a personality defect

I think that flew over Lirefighters head

 

[Notch7]

Nonsense.

you choose blind faith and prejudice over facts.

 

[Lirefighter]

I think that flew over Lirefighters head

That's proof that my reply went over yours.

 

[JohnD]

You lefties really are absolute morons.

You are being abusive.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Part of the challenge if seeking higher wages for those on lower incomes is, would everything not require to be adjusted upwards?

Let's say a worker earns £20k pa.
Their team leader earns £25k pa.
The team manager earns £35k pa.
The depot manager earns £50k pa.
The area manager earns £75k pa.

If the worker salary of £20k is deemed to be too low, and an increase to £25k is mandated, what does this mean for the team leader salary? Where is the incentive to be a team leader for no more £££. Ok, so let's increase the team leader salary to £30k. But wait, the team manager only earns £5k more, hardly fair for all their extra responsibilities. Ok, so let's increase the team manager salary to £45k. But wait, the depot manager ...

 

[Notch7]

Part of the challenge if seeking higher wages for those on lower incomes is, would everything not require to be adjusted upwards?

Let's say a worker earns £20k pa.
Their team leader earns £25k pa.
The team manager earns £35k pa.
The depot manager earns £50k pa.
The area manager earns £75k pa.

If the worker salary of £20k is deemed to be too low, and an increase to £25k is mandated, what does this mean for the team leader salary? Where is the incentive to be a team leader for no more £££. Ok, so let's increase the team leader salary to £30k. But wait, the team manager only earns £5k more, hardly fair for all their extra responsibilities. OK, so let's increase the team manager salary to £45k. But wait, the depot manager ...

That is a very valid point and the problem that exists is a very hard nut to crack
What you have explained is a major reason why it is so hard to raise minimum wage

But we have a situation where more and more people cant afford to live on the with wages, people suffering fuel and food poverty

Also we seem to have millions of people in full time work that get tax credits -surely they should be paid more so thats not necessary

 

[motorbiking]

So develop the worker, so that he has the skills to coach others. In the services industry this is known as Leverage. The ability for one company to deliver the work more competitively by developing its workers.

Leverage your brains and grey hair to make your juniors more effective.

 

[JohnD]

Low pay for workers is not determined by skill level.

Neither is high pay for employers.

 

[motorbiking]

Low pay for workers is not determined by skill level.

Neither is high pay for employers.

you can repeat it as much as you like - but it isn't true.

The more desirable your skills, the more you get to choose.

 

[JohnD]

but it isn't true.

It is true.

 

[Notch7]

So develop the worker, so that he has the skills to coach others. In the services industry this is known as Leverage. The ability for one company to deliver the work more competitively by developing its workers.

Leverage your brains and grey hair to make your juniors more effective.

so you develop the skills of every care worker

you then have no care workers

not a solution then