Standard Dimmer working on LED

[yartin]

Hi
I have a lighting circuit of 6 bulbs, 4 of G9 and 2 of B15 connected to a standard dimmer of over 20 years old, populated with halogens, now moving to LEDs. I put 4 G9 LEDs and the dimmer is working, LED are being dimmed, how come standard dimmer work with LEDs? I have tried similar in the past but LEDs were flickering,

I have an LED dimmer (varilight) but haven't tried yet.

 

[flameport]

Some old dimmers will work with some combinations of LED lamps. Others will not.
A decent LED dimmer will work with pretty much any dimmable LED lamp.

Just depends on whether you want something that will work first time, or are prepared to risk the waste of time and money when things do not.

 

[yartin]

Some old dimmers will work with some combinations of LED lamps. Others will not.
A decent LED dimmer will work with pretty much any dimmable LED lamp.

Just depends on whether you want something that will work first time, or are prepared to risk the waste of time and money when things do not.

Forgot to say, the LEDs I had were purchased as not dimmable, cheap Chinese import

 

[oldbutnotdead]

If you still have 2 Tungsten lamps in the circuit (which is implied from your description) they'll be loading the dimmer enough to remove the flicker. Doubt your LED lamps on the circuit will hit their design life but up to you what you do about it.

 

[ericmark]

I had problems with G9 lamps, the small lamp would flicker and stay lit when electronic switch was off, the large one worked no problem, but one failed so I took it apart, the smoothing capacitor was nearly as big as the smaller lamp, I actually found a dry joint and corrected it, and put it back into use. The driver was also just a capacitor, but there was no wattage or lumen marked on the bulbs, or packaging, so technically illegal to sell in the UK, and also the covers which went over the halogen version would not fit. OK not required with LED as they were to catch the quartz should the explode so white hot bits don't fall on floor, but changes whole look of chandelier.

 

[yartin]

I had problems with G9 lamps, View attachment 289056the small lamp would flicker and stay lit when electronic switch was off, the large one worked no problem, but one failed so I took it apart, the smoothing capacitor was nearly as big as the smaller lamp, I actually found a dry joint and corrected it, and put it back into use. The driver was also just a capacitor, but there was no wattage or lumen marked on the bulbs, or packaging, so technically illegal to sell in the UK, and also the covers which went over the halogen version would not fit. OK not required with LED as they were to catch the quartz should the explode so white hot bits don't fall on floor, but changes whole look of chandelier.

I have bathroom light with 4 of G9 lamps same Chinese import, they still work fine, but on one occasion they stayed dimmed/glow when switch was off, I changed the switch sorted the issue. The fitting is bathroom light no earth required if matters.
You can similar ones these days from screwfix and TS probably with markings:

G9 LED | Lighting | Toolstation.com

UK’s best range of G9 LED. Free Next Day Delivery or Click & Collect in as little as 5 minutes.

www.toolstation.com

G4 & G9 LED Light Bulbs | Lighting | Screwfix

Buy G4 & G9 LED Light Bulbs at Screwfix.com. Compact yet bright illumination. Energy efficient for reduced running costs. Hundreds of stores nationwide.

www.screwfix.com

 

[ericmark]

The one I got had 69 LED chips, think number G9-69SMD-5730 likely 10 watt and 850 lumen each, but depends on which web site you find them. Toolstation largest is 3.2 watt, Screwfix site similar, odd but screwfix still selling quartz halogen, 46 watt 702 lumen was their largest, still less than the 10 watt lamp I have shown at 850 lumen.

I can understand at that output why one wants a dimmer switch, and at 50 watt likely most will work, even if officially 60 - 400 watt. Seems odd as far back as I can remember standard BA22d bulbs were bought in packs with 40, 60, and 100 watt, so 40 watt was always possible load, so why anyone would market a domestic switch with minimum over 40 don't know, the standard down light was common as 35 and 50 watt, did even early on get 10 watt versions, I remember them causing problems where the bulb was replaced with a 50 watt burning out the voltage dropper.

I think the rush to use LED bulbs has resulted in a lot of problems, with strobe effect, flicker, staying on dim, possibly stopping type AC RCD's from working, and forcing the use of programmable thermostats to allow rooms to be warmer in the evening, and linked to that the higher use of energy overall when the contribution to heating the home with infrared is taken into account.

It was a typical governmental knee jerk reaction, without considering the consequences, a very blinkered approach, don't get me wrong, I think LED lighting is good, but not for energy saving, but for the reduction in maintenance. But we have instantiated rules like products should be supported for 7 years, so to stop selling tungsten bulbs before 2030 is going against the governments own rules.

Soon they will find some thing wrong with LED and return to oil lights hanging on the wall.

 

[winston1]

so why anyone would market a domestic switch with minimum over 40 don't know,

Because they are done "on the cheap" It is perfectly possible to design and manufacture a switch mode supply that will maintain its output voltage at zero load. Phone chargers, wall warts for set top boxes are just a couple of examples. They don't need to operate at 10s of kHz either, lamps work on DC.

I think the rush to use LED bulbs has resulted in a lot of problems, with strobe effect, flicker, staying on dim, possibly stopping type AC RCD's from working, and forcing the use of programmable thermostats to allow rooms to be warmer in the evening, and linked to that the higher use of energy overall when the contribution to heating the home with infrared is taken into account.

The contribution of a typical 100w bulb in a room is minimal. I honestly haven't noticed any difference since changing to LED.

It was a typical governmental knee jerk reaction, without considering the consequences, a very blinkered approach, don't get me wrong, I think LED lighting is good, but not for energy saving, but for the reduction in maintenance.

Maybe.

 

[yartin]

I think LED lighting is good, but not for energy saving,

Are you implying there is no energy saving from replacing 6 halogen bulbs 48W each to 6 LED bulbs 6W each, giving same Lumens in a room with lights on 10hrs a day, everyday?

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

He's saying that the saving in electricity derived energy by using leds is exactly balanced by the increase in heating energy needed. This would be regardless of the time of year, and regardless of the fact that not all lit rooms are heated to comfort temperatures. By ignoring the relative fuel costs it also doesn't need to take the cost savings into account. We've heard it before and no doubt we'll hear it again.

 

[ericmark]

You can only save energy, if the energy is producing some thing not wanted. So in winter we want the heat from the lights, so removing that heat is not saving energy, it may well save money as electric costs more than oil or gas, but saving money is not the same as saving energy.

In real terms in the summer we use the lights less, so for the 4 months when no heat is required, we don't use the lights as much anyway.

However once it reaches a point when we need to use energy to remove heat, then we need to reduce the heat into the home as much as possible, we also need to ventilate the home, and keep the humidity to within acceptable levels.

So first domestic appliance we need to get rid of, is the gas cooker, it puts combustion products into the air, it gets the kitchen really hot, it means you also need a cooker hood to remove the water vapour from burning gas, and the heat, and other combustion products, so even in winter your pumping air you have paid to heat outside.

I found the induction hob really reduced the temperature of the kitchen, and the electric oven is well insulated, where the gas oven needs combustion air so is pumping heat into the kitchen all the time it is on.

Compared to the gas cooker, the lights are such a small thing. Far more energy is wasted with gas cookers, I am not saying ban gas cookers, but pointing out lights are way down on the list for energy wasting.

It is the same with electric cars, turning all the trains to electric will save a lot more energy than turning cars to electric, and it is easier to do, making sure all trains and buses can carry electric bikes would mean the need for cars is really reduced, but it is not about saving energy, it is about making money, electric cars cost more than petrol ones, so more money is extracted from the public by going to electric cars than electric trains.

The whole reduce energy and save the world is really down to how to get people to spend more.