Stick with Conventional Boiler or move to Combi?

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Hi there,

I wonder if some of you guys might have an opinion on the following, I'd love some guidance as I'm not sure which direction to go with our heating system. :confused:

We are in the process of modernising our 3 bedroom detached house.

The boiler (a Potterton I think) and controls are about 15 years+ old and we want to update the sytem so that it is more efficient, cheaper to run (fuel prices the way they are going etc. etc.) and easier to maintain.

Some facts about our house, the current heating system and us...

- Population = me, the wife and two teenage kids. :LOL:

- We have just one bathroom at the moment and it only has a bath but we want to do some work in the next 6 months or so to tart it up and install a shower (not a powershower or anything heavy duty, probably just a thermostatic mixer).

- We are also considering installing a small shower/wetroom downstairs in a year or so (this would be in addition to the shower we are installing in the existing bathroom upstairs) to achieve a bit less fighting over showers/baths in the mornings! :rolleyes:

- We have 7 radiators currently, this might rise to 8 when we do some work downstairs as our dining room lacks a rad at the moment.

- As I say the boiler is a Potterton, conventional style one with a hot water tank in the airing cupboard a large and small cold water tanks in the loft.

- Oh and we have full cavity and loft insulation, if that makes any difference.

...our builder/plumber has said he thinks we ought to stick with a conventional boiler as a Combi will not be able to keep up with demand if both showers are going etc. I think he also had some concerns about the length of the run from the boiler in the kitchen to the upstairs bathroom.

Do you guys agree, or should we perhaps not be discounting the higher end Combi boilers (like those with storage)? Something like a Vaillant ecoTEC plus 937 perhaps?

My reluctance to stay with a conventional boiler is (probably wrongly) that they seem inherently wasteful? i.e. that a Combi would only heat the hot water that it was asked for? Am I being stupid? We want something that will be as efficient as possible and cheap to run but which will meet our needs obviously.

Any opinions/thoughts (particularly polite and insightful ones!) would be gratefully received.

Cheers,

Andy
 
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With two showers and a bath, four people at the property a combi (even a 937) would struggle. If you have a good mains water supply a system boiler and unvented cylinder would be the best option (and most expensive), secondly I'd keep the existing cylinder and replace the boiler only. A combi is gonna struggle in the winter to meet your hot water demands and is better suited to a small house/flat with 1 or 2 occupants. Combi's are cheaper to run though but they have their limitations.
 
Thanks for that DM.

Very roughly, how much more expensive do you think an appropriate system boiler and unvented cylinder solution would be for us versus an appropriate conventional boiler solution? Presumably if it's loads more money to install and only a touch more efficient it's not worthwhile?

With regard to keeping the existing cylinder, should I be worried about how much insulation there is on the current one? I'm not sure how I find this out if it matters.

Cheers,

Andy
 
I would be looking at the Vaillant ecotec plus 600 series and the Vaillant unistor cylinder. shop around for prices but quality costs money I'm afraid. Unvented cylinders (cold mains permitting) give very good flow rates,have good reheat times and are very well lagged. They could both be put in the loft or airing cupboard to save room. ;)
 
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Thanks again DM.

System boilers look interesting, they don't seem much more expensive than Conventional ones but I guess the extra cost would come from the new Cylinder?

It'd be nice to lose the two cold water tanks in the loft.

I suppose the only thing that might throw a spanner in the works is if we decided to integrate solar at a later date, as we'd need a new cylinder and the one we'd buy if we went the System route would be wasted.

Decisions, decisions! :LOL:

Thanks again,

Andy
 
I suppose the only thing that might throw a spanner in the works is if we decided to integrate solar at a later date, as we'd need a new cylinder and the one we'd buy if we went the System route would be wasted.

not so, you can buy a solar cylinder and add the solar at a later date. Vaillant aurostor cylinder would fit in with DM's plans..
 
Ahh ok, so I'd buy a more expensive, twin coil cylinder in readiness for solar but just one coil would be in use until we actually added the solar system? Hmm I ought to decide if we are really likely to go that route in the future as twin coil cylinders seem a fairly significant step up in price if we don't end up using it.

Cheers,

Andy
 
Ahh ok, so I'd buy a more expensive, twin coil cylinder in readiness for solar but just one coil would be in use until we actually added the solar system? Hmm I ought to decide if we are really likely to go that route in the future as twin coil cylinders seem a fairly significant step up in price if we don't end up using it.

Cheers,

Andy

Solar heating may well come down in price in the future but at the moment it's not cost effective. How big is your wallet?
 
105mm x 88mm x 37mm. :p

Seriously though, I know what you mean about Solar, but I suppose the other thing that could make it cost effective (other than the hardware costs coming down) is fuel costs going up! As the small contribution that Solar makes to your heating output will be worth more. :confused:

And that seems to be a fairly safe bet at the moment. :mad:

Andy
 
105mm x 88mm x 37mm. :p

Seriously though, I know what you mean about Solar, but I suppose the other thing that could make it cost effective (other than the hardware costs coming down) is fuel costs going up! As the small contribution that Solar makes to your heating output will be worth more. :confused:

And that seems to be a fairly safe bet at the moment. :mad:

Andy

true. solar can heat approx 60% off your hot water needs throughout the year so as hardware prices come down and fuel costs increase it becomes more viable. If you plan on staying in this house along time it'll be a good investment long term so it depends what your future plans are. . . . .
 
We'll be staying a minimum of 5 years I'd say as it's right near our kids school so it might be worth planning ahead.

Cheers,

Andy
 
Been doing some thinking overnight. Just to clarify, is there any efficiency difference between Sytem boilers versus Conventional boilers? i.e. comparing two Vaillants of equivalent output, one a System boiler and one a Conventional, will they use different amounts of gas to do the same job?

Or are the only differences in the space required, ease of install, servicing etc.?

I'm wondering whether switching from conventional might not be worth it if it just frees up some space in the loft.

If System is more efficient as well then it might be worth doing.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,

Andy
 
Anyone got any thoughts re: the efficiency of Conventional vs. System? I think I've got my head around the other differences?

Cheers,

Andy
 
If I just compare the SEDBUK efficiency figures for say a Vaillant Conventional vs. Vaillant System boiler will this tell me which will be cheaper to run. Or will comparing the efficiency figures alone not give me the whole picture when comparing System vs. Conventional boilers?

Cheers,

Andy
 
Anyone? ;)

If say, I compare a...

ecoTEC Plus 637 (system boiler) with a SEDBUK quoted efficiency rating of 91.2%

...with an...

ecoTEC Plus 438 (conventional boiler) with a SEDBUK quoted efficiency rating of 90.8%

..is that giving me the full picture of the efficiency/running cost differences between the two types of boiler? Or because they work in different ways will the running costs be more complicated to work out?

As I say I'm trying to get out if there are any running cost differences between the two types of system (conventional vs. system)? If there aren't then the benefits seem to be constrained to ease of install, maintenance and space required.

These are important but I think running cost will be the key area for us over the coming years. That said the SEDBUK figures only show about an annual saving of £4 per annum between those two boilers and that's probably more down to the different kWh rating maybe?

Any opinions at all would be gratefully received.

Cheers,

Andy
 

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