stopping chipboard creaking

[kimeddie]

Hi all
I recently moved in to a new house.
Before laying carpets i tried very hard to stop the chipboard flooring from creacking when you walk over it. Itspretty load everywhere!

First I pulled up all the nails (long process) and replace with flooring screws, this stopped some of the really nasty creaks but 80% remain.
I also tried the tips from skill builder on putting diluted pva down the joints , made no difference, even tried twice.

Im reluctant to replace with plywood as I suspect it may not solve the issue if the joists are warped and will be very costly and disruptive

what I have noticed and the point of this post is in the main bedroom the previous owner had sawn out all the T&G joints. These run parallel to the joists underneath so I assume this doesnt impact the stability or load capcacity too much. this room has far less creaking (say 85% gone).
Im tempted to try this myself in the other rooms but im terrified of hitting a pipe, I guess i just need to go super slowly and carefully.

any advice /tips appreciated

thanks
kimeddie

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Chipboard floors often creak because they are incorrectly fixed down (nails instead of screws, plus not enough of them) and because the installer has neither glued the chipboard to the tops of the joists, nor the boards to each other at the tongues. If, in addition, the boards weren't pulled up tight when they were installed that would just exacerbate the situation IMHO. I don't think I'd have bothered with PVA - PVA is designed to work on fairly tight joints and in itself it isn't a gap filler - instead of that I'd have tried a polyurethane flooring adhesive such as the one sold under the Egger brand name. I'd even consider drilling a few holes at an angle down to the tongue (about 5 to 8mm) to get it in. PU glues expand as they set which should help lock the joints, so it may work, it may not, but I think it is worth a try

Warning: in contact with skin PU glue causes the skin to harden and blacken - so wear gloves (the blackness can take a few days to go with washing as new skin cells grow). Use sparingly as it does expand (just like PU foam)

The fact that the previous owner sawed out the tongues supports my gut feeling that it is the lack of glue in the T&G joints which is the biggest issue after the use of nails. The main problem I can see with this is that it does reduce the stiffness of the floor a bit - you end up with individual planks which can move at the joints, as opposed to a single surface which won't flex as much

Plywood is all very well, if very exoensive, but TBH if chipboard is properly installed (i.e glued and screwed) it is fit for purpose. Retro fitting a floor opens up a whole new can of worms

As to warped joists the best solution is to install solid strutting between the joists, but I honestly don't think that is your problem

 

[kimeddie]

Chipboard floors often creak because they are incorrectly fixed down (nails instead of screws, plus not enough of them) and because the installer has neither glued the chipboard to the tops of the joists, nor the boards to each other at the tongues. If, in addition, the boards weren't pulled up tight when they were installed that would just exacerbate the situation IMHO. I don't think I'd have bothered with PVA - PVA is designed to work on fairly tight joints and in itself it isn't a gap filler - instead of that I'd have tried a polyurethane flooring adhesive such as the one sold under the Egger brand name. I'd even consider drilling a few holes at an angle down to the tongue (about 5 to 8mm) to get it in. PU glues expand as they set which should help lock the joints, so it may work, it may not, but I think it is worth a try

The fact that the previous owner sawed out the tongues supports my gut feeling that it is the lack of glue in the T&G joints which is the biggest issue after the use of nails. The main problem I can see with this is that it does reduce the stiffness of the floor a bit - you end up with individual planks which can move at the joints, as opposed to a single surface which won't flex as much

Plywood is all very well, if very exoensive, but TBH if chipboard is properly installed (i.e glued and screwed) it is fit for purpose. Retro fitting a floor opens up a whole new can of worms

As to warped joists the best solution is to install solid strutting between the joists, but I honestly don't think that is your problem

thanks for the reply, I had hopped that replacing all the nails with screws would keep the floor tied down more, so i feel its more likely the tongue and groove joints as you say . Its worth noting the central intertior walls sits on top of the chip board flooring.

I like the idea of the flooring adhesives in the joints , do you normally find that works? just worried if I do that then sawing the joints will be even harder afterwards !

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Make sure you're using the right sort of screws. You need the type where the thread starts about an inch down from the head- these will pull the floor down far more effectively than full thread screws. Don't be skinny on them - for 22mm chipboard use 5 or 6 x 60mm and an impact driver.
You do need to be careful of pipework and cables notched into the joists- best where you can to lift and refix boards

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I like the idea of the flooring adhesives in the joints , do you normally find that works? just worried if I do that then sawing the joints will be even harder afterwards !

Having the boards glued to the tops of the joists and the T&G joints themselves glued as well a fixing down to the joists using screws is the installation method required by manufacturers such as Egger and Caberdecor - and has been for quite a few years. Unfortunately, your floor was installed by a price work cowboy, just nailed down. Because PU glue expands as it cures if you can get enough of it into the joints (hence the angled drilling suggestion - something like 10 or 12mm holes) it should help lock the floor joints and reduce movement. PU glue for injection down holes can be had in caulking gun type tubes. Like I said, try an area first, and if it doesn't work move to the next solution

As to sawing the joints, glued or not glued will make little difference to how much effort is required (BTW this is a job for a multitool if it is necessary)

You do need to be careful of pipework and cables notched into the joists- best where you can to lift and refix boards

This is difficult enough to lift and refix T&G softwood planking to do this. It's a lot more awkward with T&G chip. You are often better off cutting out a small inspection hole and sticking your phone down there for a look see

 

[kimeddie]

Make sure you're using the right sort of screws. You need the type where the thread starts about an inch down from the head- these will pull the floor down far more effectively than full thread screws. Don't be skinny on them - for 22mm chipboard use 5 or 6 x 60mm and an impact driver.
You do need to be careful of pipework and cables notched into the joists- best where you can to lift and refix boards

thanks, yes i made sure i used proper floor screws (floor-tite and spax) wasnt enough , at least in the existing holes

 

[kimeddie]

Having the boards glued to the tops of the joists and the T&G joints themselves glued as well a fixing down to the joists using screws is the installation method required by manufacturers such as Egger and Caberdecor - and has been for quite a few years. Unfortunately, your floor was installed by a price work cowboy, just nailed down. Because PU glue expands as it cures if you can get enough of it into the joints (hence the angled drilling suggestion - something like 10 or 12mm holes) it should help lock the floor joints and reduce movement. PU glue for injection down holes can be had in caulking gun type tubes. Like I said, try an area first, and if it doesn't work move to the next solution

As to sawing the joints, glued or not glued will make little difference to how much effort is required (BTW this is a job for a multitool if it is necessary)


This is difficult enough to lift and refix T&G softwood planking to do this. It's a lot more awkward with T&G chip. You are often better off cutting out a small inspection hole and sticking your phone down there for a look see

thanks , will give this a go in the new year