street lights and EV charging points

[ericmark]

I do see your point, we often exceed the ratings of devices, mainly because some think has changed and no one has checked, having a 8 kW shower on a 32 amp MCB for example, but in that case worse case scenario is it trips.

I have seem 10 amp MCB's feeding ceiling roses which double as junction boxes which are rated at 6 amp, and it is very unlikely the ceiling rose will not handle 10 amp, however I can see the ceiling rose with all it's components and be sure it can take 10 amp even if rated at 6 amp.

With a RCD I can't assess the ability of the internal components to take over the rated current, looking at 40, 63, 80 and 100 amp

I see no difference other than the markings on them, I don't believer a manufacturer would make 4 RCD's with different ratings if they could get away making one. There must be some thing different, and I do not know the result in over loading the device.

From early days we have had small differences in devices allowing different currents the old Wylex fuse box main switch was rated 60 amp the fuse carriers had the first one with different metal to take a larger fuse, and putting the larger fuse in the other carriers did cause damage in this case we could see the damage. Yes I know we can buy populated consumer units where the total of the MCB's exceeds the RCD ratings, but as long as the DNO fuse is 60 amp this is not a problem, it only becomes a problem if the DNO change the fuse to over 60 amp, so if this consumer unit was fitted to a home wanting the supply upgrading for EV charging, then the electrician would need to change components in the consumer unit, the unit does have three neutral bars so using some RCBO's the load could be dropped on each RCD, and one would not want the EV charging point to use the same RCD as rest of house anyway, this 5 bedroom house on three floors has a 60 amp DNO fuse, when I moved in the Wylex fuse box isolator was only rated at 60 amp, now the new consumer units does have a 100 amp isolator so could be uprated, but unless it blows I would not expect that to be done, but where you find a consumer unit with 63 amp RCD's and 100 amp fuse, how do you point finger are electrician fitting CU or DNO as in the main no idea which was fitted first.

So as electricians the big question is if a 63 amp RCD on a 100 amp DNO fuse is potentially dangerous? If yes we give it a code C2, if not then only a code C3 and I would say latter, in fact not sure it would even be coded, code 4 has gone. Maybe a thread questionnaire would be interesting?

 

[FrodoOne]

An interesting topic.

However, isn't the real question
"How to provide Charging Points for EV which need to be parked in streets"?

Over the last several hundred years, the UK (and other countries) has dealt with the need to provide new sources of energy to (new) customers.

First came "Gas", with a supply of the product to individual customers - and paid by them, for both "connection" and "usage".
Then came "Electricity", supplied and paid for along similar lines.
("Street Lighting" was introduced using first "Gas" and then "Electricity" - paid for within "community charges". (Council Rates etc.)

When there are sufficient EVs parked in streets, it will be necessary for the "Supply Authorities" to "move-with-the-times" and install individual "Supply Points" at each "Parking Space" - with sufficient capacity to supply all likely requirements.

How each "Supply" is paid for by each individual customer is a matter to "sort-out".
However, in a day and age of "credit-cards", "mobile phones" etc., this should not be difficult.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

How each "Supply" is paid for by each individual customer is a matter to "sort-out".
However, in a day and age of "credit-cards", "mobile phones" etc., this should not be difficult.

It would be easy for a vehicle to RF ID itself to a charging point.

 

[SUNRAY]

It would be easy for a vehicle to RF ID itself to a charging point.

I'd suggest to not RF ID with points very close together. The vehicle already communicates with the CP via the cable which should be better method.

 

[ericmark]

I do like @FrodoOne post, and he makes a good point, as it stands it seems the user has to read the ID of the charging point and use his phone to tell the provider he wants to use that point and agrees to pay for the energy extracted.

There are some which give away energy, to customers of their retail outlet, and there is often a free 15 minutes worth of power to allow for the user to register with the provider.

There are moves to try and reduce the number of providers a user needs to register with, but if the truck act was still in force most the EV charging points would fall foul of the law. Not sure we have any coin of the realm, most still has the Queens head on it, if not all. But we were by law guaranteed to be able to pay for items and services with cash, due to unrest in South Wales where miners were paid in tokens.

I know using debit cards is handy, and saves walking around with a pocket full of cash, but to use debit cards or credit cards you need a bank account, I well remember the problems with Scottish money, we in North Wales saw so little of it, to know if it was counterfeit or not was hard, and petrol filling stations did try to refuse it, however that was illegal, we were forced to accept it.

I know the truck act was repealed. Allowing for people to be paid by bank transfer, but for shops and the like to refuse the coin of the realm I think is still against the law?

 

[winston1]

I well remember the problems with Scottish money, we in North Wales saw so little of it, to know if it was counterfeit or not was hard, and petrol filling stations did try to refuse it, however that was illegal, we were forced to accept it.

Scottish banknotes are not legal tender even in Scotland. Unless Welsh law is different no one has to accept it nor NI, Isle of Man, Jersey, or Guernsey banknotes. The Falklands and Gibraltar also issue sterling banknotes which can’t be used here.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I know using debit cards is handy, and saves walking around with a pocket full of cash, but to use debit cards or credit cards you need a bank account,

A bank account is pretty much an essential for most people, I cannot imagine there can be many adults who lack an account these days.

 

[JohnW2]

When there are sufficient EVs parked in streets, it will be necessary for the "Supply Authorities" to "move-with-the-times" and install individual "Supply Points" at each "Parking Space" - with sufficient capacity to supply all likely requirements.

Indeed - but a pre-requisite of that is presumably the creation of adequate generation and and adequate distribution network, neither of which I suspect are, at present, adequate for widespread deployment of EVs and heat pumps - and creating that ';adequacy' will presumably take a considerable amount of time.

How each "Supply" is paid for by each individual customer is a matter to "sort-out". However, in a day and age of "credit-cards", "mobile phones" etc., this should not be difficult.

Indeed so,

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

we in North Wales saw so little of it, to know if it was counterfeit or not was hard, and petrol filling stations did try to refuse it, however that was illegal, we were forced to accept it.

What is legal tender?

Many people are confused about what legal tender means. It’s actually about settling debts rather than how you can pay for things.

www.bankofengland.co.uk

 

[JohnW2]

Scottish banknotes are not legal tender even in Scotland.

Whilst that is technically true, they are certainly accepted for payment in Scotland (and, in practice, usually also in England - although no-one is obliged to accept them in any country). In fact, technically speaking, no 'banknotes' (not even Scottish ones) are 'legal tender' in Scotland - Royal Mint coins being the only 'legal tender' in that country.

However, this is really just a legal technicality, of no practical consequence (other than to people who 'try to be clever'). Cheques, Debit Cards and 'contactless payments' aren't "legal tender" in any part of UK, although we use them all the time, in all parts of UK.

 

[SUNRAY]

Now we have delved into this tangent, if I remember this correctly all legal tender means is something to the effect of; you can't be sued for not paying a debt if you offer to pay using legal tender. Added to that there is (or possibly was) something about only coins are legal tender and paper money is not.

So progressing this; if you owe money to someone and thay insist they will only take a specific method of payment, say credit card or bank transfer, and you offer coins or banknotes the debt basically becomes (struggling for suitable word here) moot or expired.

However the laws for money laundering now set a limit on cash payments so technically the 2 laws contradict each other.

Information gleaned from solicitor when trying to buy a house without a mortgage.

 

[JohnW2]

Now we have delved into this tangent, if I remember this correctly all legal tender means is something to the effect of; you can't be sued for not paying a debt if you offer to pay using legal tender.

According to Mr Google, you are correct.

Added to that there is (or possibly was) something about only coins are legal tender and paper money is not.

In England, I think either coins of banknotes issued by Bank of England are legal tender. However, as I wrote, in Scotland, banknotes (even Scottish banknotes) are not legal tender - the only legal tender in that country apparently being Bank of England coins (which could be a bit of a problem in some situations, given that the highest denomination coin is £1 £2 - wheelbarrows might be required!)

Kind Regards, John
Edit: important typo corrected.

 

[SUNRAY]

According to Mr Google, you are correct.

In England, I think either coins of banknotes issued by Bank of England are legal tender. However, as I wrote, in Scotland, banknotes (even Scottish banknotes) are not legal tender - the only legal tender in that country apparently being Bank of England coins (which could be a bit of a problem in some situations, given that the highest denomination coin is £1 - wheelbarrows might be required!)

Kind Regards, John

Crowns are £5.
Interesting, I only know any of this from when I paid for my daughters house, I expected to hand over cheques and had even contacted my banks who said I could use my debit cards. The conveyancing solicitors insisted it had to be wire transfers on the day, not even standard bank transfers in advance. When I joked about paying with cash they said they'd accept coin but not paper (plastic notes) and I'd have to produce loads of documentation due to money laundering, I had to produce some anyway and it was touch and go that they'd accept my explanations it was savings from earnings.

I've not bothered to check what I was told or understood it correctly.

 

[JohnW2]

Crowns are £5.

Eh? The crowns I 'knew' (not that we ever saw them) were 5 shillings (one quarter of a £, aka 25p in today-speak).

I thought you were old enough to remember the "half-a-crown" coins which we all used to have in our pockets, being worth 2 shillings and 6 (old) pence (aka 12.5p), aren't you?

Kind Regards, John

 

[FrodoOne]

Eh? The crowns I 'knew' (not that we ever saw them) were 5 shillings (one quarter of a £, aka 25p in today-speak).

I thought you were old enough to remember the "half-a-crown" coins which we all used to have in our pockets, being worth 2 shillings and 6 (old) pence (aka 12.5p), aren't you?

Kind Regards, John

"Crowns" were 5 shillings (5/-) or £0.25 (25 Pence) today.
There were also "Half Crowns", (2/6) or £0.125 (Twelve and One Half Pence) today.

I assume that the UK also had "Florins" (commonly called "Two Shillings") [2/-]), now equal to 10 Pence (£0.10)