Subflooring issues

[Rygel Dominar]

Hi guys some advise from what I have read a plywood subfloor/overboard over my floorboards what is it even a subfloor or overboard as my floorboards are my subfloor?

They all say online it should be either nailed or screwed down @ 150mm intervals.

Okay, so why 150mm intervals I assume that it's this distance because it offers the best security?

Also I assume you would remove the skirting board to allow for the 10mm expansion gaps.

Please look at the photos this is my current plywood subfloor? Any advise is appreciated thanks.

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Some more pictures they don't really show how bad it is like the naked eye would

 

[Rygel Dominar]

I have tried to give you enough photos so u can give the best advise you can while it is over the web there is onlybso much the camera will pick up the sheets are just dotted around seems at different heights/levels also different grades and the area obviously wasn't clean prior and all the nails are rusting and poking through the lino.

Any exspert advise is appreciated thanks.

 

[Mr Chibs]

Morning


If your floorboards are in bad condition, some people 'overboard' them with plywood.

The sub floor is below the floorboards/joists... usually mentioned on a ground floor.

Plywood is better screwed down every 150mm to make for a tight fitting overboard, that hopefully won't creak.

Any nails/screw head that are protruding need knocking down so they are not higher that the plywood.

No gaps are needed on the floor, just a small gap at the skirting boards... no need to take them off.

 

[Mr Chibs]

Your floor needs some work... what are you covering it with?

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Lol I know right sadly it's rented and the landlord wants to do everything as cheap as possible instead of right.

Obviously If it was mine I'd do it correctly and to a much higher standard subfloor if done correctly last over 20 years I moved in a year ago.

Just some basic lino but the landlord just wants to fill the gaps with wood filler instead of taking up and re doing correctly, the ply has bounce squeak and water damage and nails poking through all over as theu went bunched down correctly even the nails have no order..

Everything I have read says first no rust nails galvanised nails/ u shank or woodnails but all agree non rust at 150mm intervals.?

I doubt even the right saw or work bench was even used.

Your thoughts? Imho it's to much of a bad job to be filled and hes just cutting corners so he doesn't have to pay the guy and extra days work or buy 5 more sheets of ply.

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Morning


If your floorboards are in bad condition, some people 'overboard' them with plywood.

The sub floor is below the floorboards/joists... usually mentioned on a ground floor.

Plywood is better screwed down every 150mm to make for a tight fitting overboard, that hopefully won't creak.

Any nails/screw head that are protruding need knocking down so they are not higher that the plywood.

No gaps are needed on the floor, just a small gap at the skirting boards... no need to take them off.

Online advise is weird as most say subfloor is applied to the joist which would make my floorboard my subfloor yeah it's all been overboarded aka make the surface flush.

So lino can be put down the thing is the nails are all rusting there are different cuts of ply at different heights where they just taken random bits and fitted them in gaps.

It has water damage sheets don't meet at the same height and you have gaps between section joints I even seem to have a nail stuck between the layers of ply how they did that I don't know. Look at the last pic surely the sheets should meet neater and not have a gap like that?

Would you fill or uplift seeing as all the nails are non rust and the sheets are missed matched it seems to me that filling it is just trying to cover over the issue instead of fix it.

I've had expert advise a guy whos had like 20 years. Says lift it and re do but the landlord just seemed to ignore the expert advice. Why you would ignore someone whos been doing it for 20 years I don't know.

Yeah people say screw takes longer but won't cause creek but the creek is coming from the weakening of the ply due to water damage not the nails from the floorboard rubbing as it didn't do this when I first moved in.

But most say pilot drill then screw bit lino is going to be glued down on top so...

Also as they used all the same/wrong kind of nails and didn't go in anykind of order like 150mm intervals or bring the cuts in neater together and to the edges and at the same level it just needs to be re done they didn't even go perpendicular with the grain/joist.

What would you do?

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Morning


If your floorboards are in bad condition, some people 'overboard' them with plywood.

The sub floor is below the floorboards/joists... usually mentioned on a ground floor.

Plywood is better screwed down every 150mm to make for a tight fitting overboard, that hopefully won't creak.

Any nails/screw head that are protruding need knocking down so they are not higher that the plywood.

No gaps are needed on the floor, just a small gap at the skirting boards... no need to take them off.

Wouldn't the flooring under my joist be the ceiling for the people below me...?

So what is the floorboards called then if not a subfloor everything I have read say subfloor sits on the joist and yeah plywood ontop is overboarding but everyone refers to it as an subfloor doesn't help lol.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

For ply cladding a floor you should always screw, never nail, as nails can/will work loose over time. Wood filler is a bodge and over time it will break-up and be useless.

The sub floor is the floor structure above the joists (in this case) but beneath the finished floor surface, which is often carpet, tile, laminate or vinyl these days. So your sub-floor is softwood planking with plywood overboarding

Your landlord is a cheapskate, the sort of person I avoid working for these days. Sadly there are a lot of shysters like him around

 

[Rygel Dominar]

For ply cladding a floor you should always screw, never nail, as nails can/will work loose over time. Wood filler is a bodge and over time it will break-up and be useless.

The sub floor is the floor structure above the joists (in this case) but beneath the finished floor surface, which is often carpet, tile, laminate or vinyl these days. So your sub-floor is softwood planking with plywood overboarding

Your landlord is a cheapskate, the sort of person I avoid working for these days. Sadly there are a lot of shysters like him around

Cherrs, it's hard as most sites are American and they don't use floorboards and like we do in the uk so makes it harder to learn new stuff when so many people call it different names and do it different ways.

But i think I've got it now my subfloor is my " soft plank floorboards" that sits on my joist? and as they aren't a flat surface it's been "overboarded"

( 2nd subfloor sort of but some call it overboarding)

Yeah most say screw with pre drilled holes and countersunk wood screws or carbon steel is it? But most say it takes longer thats why some don't do it. but is the better choice but nails are obviously a lot quicker if you don't care about the quality but even in this case they cuts are all over the place the nails aren't rust free etc

Thanks fpr your reply I did wounder so what would you do rip it up and re do correctly? Also so what do I have here overboarding or cladding?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

But i think I've got it now my subfloor is my " soft plank floorboards" that sits on my joist? and as they aren't a flat surface it's been "overboarded"

( 2nd subfloor sort of but some call it overboarding)

Correct

Yeah most say screw with pre drilled holes and countersunk wood screws or carbon steel is it? But most say it takes longer thats why some don't do it. but is the better choice but nails are obviously a lot quicker if you don't care about the quality but even in this case they cuts are all over the place the nails aren't rust free etc

I'm a carpenter, so I sometimes do this sort of thing for a living. For small areas I'd just use loose screws and an impact driver - I doubt that hand nailing would be any quicker (and I'm fairly quick with a hammer - you don't use a nail gun on thin plywood unless you want to risk perforating any pipes in the voids between the joists, or worse hitting a live electric cable notched into the top of a joist). For larger areas I'd use a collated screwgun which is a LOT faster than nailing

... so what would you do rip it up and re do correctly? Also so what do I have here overboarding or cladding?

Providing the overboarding is in reasonable condition get a tack lifter and pull out the nails, replacing them with screws at 150mm (6in) centres as you go. Unfortunately, this will be a pretty soul-destroying task - but ripping up the overboarding is also a pretty horrible job as many of the nails will simply pull through (and stick out from the floor - so you'll trip over a lot and they'll be hell on your knees if youy find one when you kneel down to work on the floor) and they still need to be either hammered flush or be ripped out before you board over the floor

Overboarding or cladding? I tend to say "overboarding" and use the word "cladding" to descrie vertical surfaces such as wall, but TBH people sometimes talk about cladding a floor, so...

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Correct


I'm a carpenter, so I sometimes do this sort of thing for a living. For small areas I'd just use loose screws and an impact driver - I doubt that hand nailing would be any quicker (and I'm fairly quick with a hammer - you don't use a nail gun on thin plywood unless you want to risk perforating any pipes in the voids between the joists, or worse hitting a live electric cable notched into the top of a joist). For larger areas I'd use a collated screwgun which is a LOT faster than nailing


Providing the overboarding is in reasonable condition get a tack lifter and pull out the nails, replacing them with screws at 150mm (6in) centres as you go. Unfortunately, this will be a pretty soul-destroying task - but ripping up the overboarding is also a pretty horrible job as many of the nails will simply pull through (and stick out from the floor - so you'll trip over a lot and they'll be hell on your knees if youy find one when you kneel down to work on the floor) and they still need to be either hammered flush or be ripped out before you board over the floor

Overboarding or cladding? I tend to say "overboarding" and use the word "cladding" to descrie vertical surfaces such as wall, but TBH people sometimes talk about cladding a floor, so...

Cherrs, well you can tell by the photos I'd hope if it can be sorted landlord wants to just fill the issues with filler?

You said thats a terrible idea? I'm not a carpenter so....just learning as stuff happens oh yeah some said they either drill a pilot or use a driver drill I just forget to mention both ways. Id assume a pilot hole isn't needed when not hand screwed?

Also just quoting what I've read that people say nails is quicker but I've never done any work like this so have no real live comparison to compare it to with what I've read... Hence why I'm here

Thats why I put the photos up as i don't think its ever been in a good nick it has different cuts all dotted around the nails aren't at 150mm intervals they aren't rust resistant aka galvanised.


Um the edges aren't neat and tidy the sheets aren't neat and tidy different levels i understand it no one ideal job but it is what it is if it needs doing it needs doing.

Id rather it be done correctly but again its rented and I can't make my landlord choose quality over cost would you mind having a look see at the pictures and say what you would do rip it all up or your secound open rip up all the nails and screw down.

My landlord has said he wants to just re hammer down the nails that are protruding not take them all out and replace just hammer them back down despite them all being rusted and just fill in the bad part of the ply with filler. You seemed not keen on that idea me neither but......I don't own the property just sounds like hes robbing Peter to pay paul.

But i would like an exsperts advise as they'll will just feed me any line tbh. Thinking I don't have the ability to think or read lol

I'd personally rip it all up and re do it correctly with screws counter sunk wood screw at 150mm intervals but that's just me. Okay so cladding just refers to any surface of material say like say plater board?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...well you can tell by the photos I'd hope if it can be sorted landlord wants to just fill the issues with filler?

You said thats a terrible idea?

Yes, because it will break-up over time, It's an absolute bodge job

Id assume a pilot hole isn't needed when not hand screwed?

Correct. With chipboard screws and a decent drill/driver it isn't necessary to pilot, but you do need to ensure that the screw is pulling the sheet material hard down onto the floorboards below (i.e that the board doesn't "jack-off" the floor boards). With lower powered/slow cordless tools it may still be necessary to drill and countersink (for which a one piece tool like the Trend Snappy drill/countersinks are ideal)

Also just quoting what I've read that people say nails is quicker...

And when I started out a few decades ago (before there were such things as affordable cordless tools) we did used to hand nail plywood overboarding and when the first drill/drivers came alongh in the late 1970s it was still faster to hand nail - but in 40 years things have changed somewhat, wouldn't you say?

My landlord has said he wants to just re hammer down the nails that are protruding not take them all out and replace just hammer them back down

But why have they come up in the first place? If they've come up once, they'll doubtless come up again. Screws, on then other hand, tend not to unscrew themselves. It's that simple

Okay so cladding just refers to any surface of material say like say plater board?

Plasterboard isn't normally referred to as cladding. Cladding generally refers tpo non-integral materials which cover parts of a structure, e.g exterior wall cladding (as seen on the outside of a lot of modern high rise buildings), or interior wall cladding (e.g. the decorative laminate wall cladding seen in hotel reception areas which is fixed to the masonry or stud walls), or ceiling cladding (e.g. the slatted timber ceiling panels used in some buildings), or floor cladding (e.g. vinyl flooring, carpets, etc - see I told you it wasn't always vertical). In other words it isn't regarded as an integral part of the structure, but can generally be removed and replaced, unlike plasterboard which is[/] integral to the structure, and actually provides some of the strength and rigidity to a stud wall

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Thanks for such amazing advise if the property was mine I'd hier you to do the job. As you seem to have given the most honest advise.

I have no idea why they came up but yeah they will do again obviously just like the nails will continue to rust now that they have started.

Also if they didn't use the 150mm rule or galvanised nails I think everyone uses them now to screw tbh yeah takes like 2 seconds compared to if you were doing it via hand.

I can only assume that it wasn't laid correctly in the firts place as everything online says a good ply subfloor/overboarding should last 20 years or more is this correct I've been here just over a year and the nails have already rusted and poke through the lino.

My landlord doesn't seem to get the concept that he will end up having to pay 3 x more if he goes cheap each time it actually is costing him more in the long run but again it's his money.

Me not being an exspert so I ask and learn I do have eyes tho, When nails are all rusting poking over the surface catching my bloody toes there are dips and slopes different heights of ply wood them not meeting the edge of the skirting etc.

You know you don't have to be no Sherlock homles you know to know somthing is amiss.

Like people haven't had Google for like the last 15 years and can just learn anything they want when they want like a personal library. But obviously it's better to also ask people in the know as Google won't differentiate say between American terminology and European as everyone does things a little different so it's best to pull form all different sources to make a informed opinion and you've helped clarify alot obviously you look at the pictures and weigh it against your knowledge.

Um "cladding I get you like some hotels/company buildings reception areas have say cut granite on the wall looks very nice or is that juts me.

The reason I went with plasterboard is because at mine I have the external wall then like a frame and plasterboard ontop of that... Wouldn't that be cladding also or is cladding only when it's a material that isn't say essential to the buildings needs aka granite is solely for decorative purposes?

Thanks for all your help I'm pretty sure landlords not going to budge but I've learnt alot and I find this stuff interesting so thanks.

 

[Rygel Dominar]

Morning


If your floorboards are in bad condition, some people 'overboard' them with plywood.

The sub floor is below the floorboards/joists... usually mentioned on a ground floor.

Plywood is better screwed down every 150mm to make for a tight fitting overboard, that hopefully won't creak.

Any nails/screw head that are protruding need knocking down so they are not higher that the plywood.

No gaps are needed on the floor, just a small gap at the skirting boards... no need to take them off.

Cherrs you can clearly see gaps even between the sheets I've even got a nail in the middle of the ply layers it's odd don't know how they did that.