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Swiss Wiring

Discussion in 'Electrics Outside of the UK' started by Graeme Vetterlein, 19 Nov 2020.

  1. MeldrewsMate

    MeldrewsMate

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    No, I think most are via lethal injection in posh white clinics.
     
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  3. FrodoOne

    FrodoOne

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    Enjoy !
     
  4. ericmark

    ericmark

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    Split phase is also used in out lying areas of UK. Many hobs designed for split phase.

    Neutral is live, as is line, in the UK our ring final system means we need to be very careful to identifying line and neutral as not permitted to fuse neutral, fuse only in the line, linked MCB's can switch neutral, and in the rest of EU common to find twin pole MCB's.

    The German sockets do not have any polarity, you can simply turn the plug around, so any fuse has to be at consumer unit not plug, but you should be OK the Swiss know all about being neutral.
     
  5. plugwash

    plugwash

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    Sort-of.

    On the one hand many standards (including BS7671) consider Neutral to be a "live conductor", but on the other hand it is normal practice (and I belive endorsed by BS7671 in TN systems, which are the majority of systems) at least in the UK (I can't speak to elsewhere) to work on electrical installations without the neutral isolated.
     
  6. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

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    and the Italian.
     
  7. ericmark

    ericmark

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    Actually the Italian [​IMG] is slightly pushed to one side so their L type is not reversible, also the French [​IMG] has the earth pin sticking out, however it seems many are adopting the German [​IMG] Schuko socket, there are plugs designed to fit both [​IMG] with both the hole for French pin, and side connections for the German.
     
  8. winston1

    winston1

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  9. ericmark

    ericmark

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  11. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

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    The two pin version was, or certainly was when I was there long term.
     
  12. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Well, yes, but the wrong way round.

    The German plugs do not need polarity because the fuse is at the consumer unit in the correct conductor and is of the correct rating.

    UK only requires a fuse in the plug because the consumer unit OPD is too highly rated for the appliance flexes.
    Although most appliance flexes probably don't require overload protection from a 13A fuse.
     
  13. FrodoOne

    FrodoOne

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    Are not these two sentences contradictory or have I not understood that which you are trying to explain?

    Please advise.
     
  14. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Perhaps I should have said:

    "UK only requires a fuse in the plug because the consumer unit OPD is too highly rated for the appliance flexes.
    Although most appliance flexes probably don't need the overload protection from a 13A fuse."

    - assuming the 32A MCB gives fault protection.

    Is that different?

    I'm saying that most appliances cannot cause overload so the fuse is not really needed.
     
  15. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

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    A left over, from when such ring circuits were fed from a 30amp rewireable fuse.
     
  16. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Yes, as is the regulation for ring circuits.
     
  17. FrodoOne

    FrodoOne

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    While I have found over 50 uses of the term "OPD" in https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/OPD, it is probable that you refer to "Over-current Protection Device"

    While (working) "appliances cannot cause overload" (if their current draw is within the rating specified by any socket-outlet and plug which accords with appropriate "regulations"), if a "short circuit" occurs within any appliance or within its connecting "lead connectors", the current could (theoretically) approach "infinity".
    Of course, that is not going to occur, since the current will be limited by the resistance/impedance of the connecting cable conductors and the "lead" conductors, which we know is not zero.

    The main (sole ?) duty of the Over-current Protection Device in any "installation" is to protect the wiring of the building concerned from "over-heating".
    If that forms some protection to any "Leads" involved, that is a "bonus" BUT the "Leads" and their connectors are rather obvious and in "free air" space, where heat dissipation is likely to be greater than that within the walls of a building.
    Because of this, connecting "Leads" often have a lower "ampacity" (current carrying capacity) than the socket-outlet to which they are connected - even if the device connected by them draws more current than that for which the "gauge" of those conductors would be "rated" if they were enclosed, as in a building space. (If the "Lead" gets "warm" in free-air, it doesn't matter !)

    While I cannot write with any authority concerning all electrical installation practices around the world, it seems that, in 230 V - 240 V supply countries, the general "practice" is to use 2.5 mm CSA conductors in "Power" supplying building cables. ("Lighting" supply cables are another matter.)
    These (Power) cables are "rated" at about 20 A but different countries have different practices concerning the socket-outlets and the "ratings" of these which may be connected.

    "European" practice seems to be to use 16 A rated socket outlets - with several/many such socket-outlets connected to the one circuit. (Diversity allows for this, since very few "appliances" would draw anything approaching 16 A on 230 V.)
    (However, there is also "provision" for 10 A rated socket-outlets on many of these same circuits!)

    UK practice is similar, except that the "Ring Circuit" was and still is utilized, with double fed 2.5 mm CSA conductors "protected" by a 32 A Circuit Breaker, with 13 A rated socket outlets connected to this and with the possibility of separately (13 A) fused "spurs".

    It may not be known outside (and inside) Australia/New Zealand that the standard 10 A Australian/NZ plug can be inserted into any Australian/NZ Socket-Outlet ranging from 10 A to 32 A. (See https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Australian_3hd.html - and all the Line and Neutral Pins illustrated there are now required to be "Half Insulated". )
    All of this without a fuse in the Plug - to "protect" ..... what (?) - and the author of this site remarks "An elegant and safe system."

    (Of course, most persons in Australia/New Zealand will never yet have seen any Socket-Outlet with a rating exceeding 15 A,
    However, that may be changing - with the introduction of charging for Electric Vehicles.)
     
    Last edited: 7 Aug 2021
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