Switch wiring... yet again

[SUNRAY]

A job today...

Just pop round the corner, customer has removed a switch and can't remember how it was connected.

I found:
1x 1mm² T&E
1x 1mm² 3C&E
2x 1.5mm²7X twin

Customer reckons all wires were connected into a 1G 2W switch which is a 2w system for the lounge light.

All 4 red wires are permanently live.
All 3 blacks appear to have nothing on the other end.

3C&E seems to buzz out to the other switch which also has the usual T&E, which buzzes out to the rose.
I have fitted the new chrome 2w switch on the 3C&E & insulated the other 3 cables.

There are a total of 5 light points in this 1bed flat using loop-in at ceiling roses and all appear to be working correctly.

I'm guessing there have been other lights at some time, I tried a tone tracer but it comes up all over and I resisted the temptation to start breaking out the multiple layers of paint on fittings.

 

[securespark]

If I had to guess (Oh, no, you can't do that....) then from looking at the cables, I would say that the 3 core and the T&E to which it is attached go together & the 3 core runs to another switch.

However....

You say there is a T&E in the other 2 way switch, which is the switch wire to the rose.

And the stranded I would guess is a live feed coming in and a switched feed going out, as it looks as if the blacks have been twisted together at some point.

You say all reds are on the live loop? Are any of the blacks neutrals?

Are both reds that are twisted together in the picture still live when separated?

How are the T&E and 3 core connected in the other switch?

It could be that the red in the 3 core is connected to the loop from the ceiling rose , so has been piggy-backed off in the removed switch.

Have you got a picture of the other switch?

We like pictures!

What have you been using to do your buzzing (fnarr, fnarr!) ?

 

[SUNRAY]

securespark said: With my replies in blue: If I had to guess (Oh, no, you can't do that....) then from looking at the cables, I would say that the 3 core and the T&E to which it is attached go together & the 3 core runs to another switch. My instant assumption too - and if I'm honest, if it had only been those 2 cables I may have possibly been tempted to connect that way, especially as their associated blue and black look like they might have been twisted together and it would have worked properly.

However....

You say there is a T&E in the other 2 way switch, which is the switch wire to the rose. Correct.

And the stranded I would guess is a live feed coming in and a switched feed going out, as it looks as if the blacks have been twisted together at some point. That was also my first assumption as the stranded blacks are indeed still twisted together but both reds are live and no amount of flicking switches changes it. Additionally the customer claims that all of the wires were terminated into the standard 2W switch.

You say all reds are on the live loop? Are any of the blacks neutrals? They currently appear to go nowhere: meggered to live, neutral and earth, and all other wires at this switch position.

Are both reds that are twisted together in the picture still live when separated? Yes.

How are the T&E and 3 core connected in the other switch? Have you got a picture of the other switch? We like pictures! No but wiring appears to be standard 2W arrangement: Yellow com, both red L1, blue and black L2.

It could be that the red in the 3 core is connected to the loop from the ceiling rose , so has been piggy-backed off in the removed switch. I isolated the wiring at the other switch and I believe the 3C&E only runs between the switches and the T&E runs from the rose.


What have you been using to do your buzzing (fnarr, fnarr!)? I had a Robin insulation/resistance tester [??3075] which I used to 'prove' continuity, the 2 cables at the other switch appear to only go to the locations mentioned above. I also had a tone cable tracer which backed this up and the 3 twins seem to show at any lighting circuit location.

I only opened the other switch and associated rose plus one other switch which wasn't excessively painted [which only had a standard T&E].

If it's any help I believe this is how it's currently wired but I have no idea where the 3 twins on the right are connected to live
Edit I have left the 2 stranded blacks connected together.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

securespark said: With my replies in blue:

 

[SUNRAY]

Hi SecureSpark.

I assume you were able to understand my reply to your post and didn't take offence in the way that I made it.

 

[SUNRAY]

As I was still working at the same place and a call came for the same block of flats...

This time a lamp holder had been changed during decoration, the story being: "I've connected it exactly as it was I even drew a picture."

I mentioned the blacks were wrong and the story continued: "It came on dim, when I switched it on it got brighter but the other light went off. So I tried swapping the 2 blacks without the red sleeve and it still came on dim but blew a fuse when I switched it on."

I corrected it, checked operation of all 5 lights in the property and tidied.

"That definitely is not the way it was."

I think he and his drawing is wrong

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I assume you were able to understand my reply to your post and didn't take offence in the way that I made it.

Should people be offended by the fact that when you post here you simply CBA to do it properly?

It wouldn't be unreasonable.

Nor would it be to wonder if your lack of care over whether you do a good job or not extends to other activities you carry out.