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Table Saw Vs Mitre Saw

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by morpheus83uk, 30 Oct 2017.

  1. Roger928

    Roger928

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    Makita LS1013. Gumtree.
    The latest dewalt can't touch this ole machine for quality. And any parts you need are all readily available.
    https://www.mtmc.co.uk/Makita-LS1013-Spare-Parts__p-75956.aspx
     
    Last edited: 13 Nov 2017
  2. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Mitre cut - where the saw swings left to right pivoting on a vertical axis. If you were to plant a 3in high skirting with its' back against the fence and swing the blade round to 45 degrees right of centre and make a cut then that would be a mitre cut. All saws allow 45 degrees to left and right, some go up to 50 or even 55 degrees. Depth of cut is limited by the diameter of the saw blade

    Bevel cut - where the head pivots left or right around a horizontal axis. If you were to plant a 5in high skirting with its' back against the table and swing the blade round to 45 degrees bevel by tilting it and make a cut then that would be a bevel cut. Single bevel saws allow 45 degrees or more (up to 50 degrees) left tilt, double bevel saws allow the head to be tilted either way. Depth of cut is limited by the diameter of the saw blade but as you are sawing the thickness rather than the depth of the skirting board you can cut taller materials that way.
    Downside: double bevel saws come at a hefty premium over single bevel saws. Upside: if you do a lot of work on ornamental mouldings (e.g. skirtings, cornices, etc) it speeds up the work to have a double bevel saw - of more use to professional woodworkers, I'd say

    Compound mitre - mainly of use for complicated joinery and also to get extra capacity when handling extremely large section mouldings (complex cornices, etc) which would ordinarily would be too large for the saw to handle when cut upright against the back fence or flat an the table with a simple bevel or mitre cut. Probably accounts for under 0.1% of the mitre cuts I've ever had to make in my working lifetime. You may never need to cut one

    Personally I'd try to pick a saw based on spec, rather than on whether or not you need a £5 adaptor

    Often they are extras. Rarely use them as in the main they slow things down and are an unnecessary complication. There are obvious exceptions, such as when I cut aluminium.
     
  3. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    There are a lot of worn out old lemons out there (especially as they're now 4 or 5 years out of production). Are you offering to take the OP to view a few and help him select a good un? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Roger928

    Roger928

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    They are easily reconditioned. Guy near me specializes in them.
    Just fixed up a mates. He looked at a number of new saws and decided to stick with his ls1013. Three of the joiners I work with have two each.
    The new dewalts are supposed to be the danglies but have nothing like the attributes the ole LS1013 has.
    The only contender might be the latest Milwaukee.
     
    Last edited: 13 Nov 2017
  5. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    So I'll take that as a no, then. Maybe you should take the time to point out to the OP where the many possible gotchas are going to be in a 5 to 20 year old possibly well used (cream crackered?) saw​
     
  6. Roger928

    Roger928

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  7. morpheus83uk

    morpheus83uk

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    Thanks for the explanation jobandknock its cleared things up. :)

    Thanks for the link Roger928 however that's double what I have to pay! I would like to get a stand as well at some point but I think that would be either with the saw or after price dependant.

    What would you guys recommend which I can purchase new which would be good?

    What sort of sizes would be good for cutting capacity?

    I would also need it to be 240V as I notice the Makita is 110V.

    Thanks

    James
     
    Last edited: 14 Nov 2017
  8. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Hi James

    The saw stand shown in the advert (DE70234) is the top of the line DW model and they really are superb pieces of kit, especially for a site joiner, but at a new price of £140 to £160. So probably overkill especially as you can more or less knock-up a working stand and trestles out of discarded pallets for the cost of a bit of time and a box of screws (done it loads of times, although not these days). The question is really what sort of size (cross section) materials are you intending to cut and what sort of jobs do you see yourself undertaking.

    For example if you are looking to do some basic 100mm skirting, 70 mm architraves, 3 x 2 stud work then you can buy a lot of saws for the money you are talking about. At one time I had a Makita MLS100 which was used on just such tasks, but was also retained for cutting up aluminium profiles we used on interior fit outs. That saw back then cost me about £100 (they are about £150 today) and was used at weekends to build decking, fit planked floors, etc as well as doing the majority of the skirtings and archis on a house we renovated. The downside was that it wasn't as easy to read the scales as a full-blown trade saw, the capacity was more limited and adjusting the back fence was a chore, but I had that saw for 8 or 9 years before "gifting" it to our apprentice. One plus of the tool is it that it uses easily obtained 250mm blades on a 30mm bore - whatever you do choose check to see that you can obtain decent blades from a variety of sources
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2017
  9. morpheus83uk

    morpheus83uk

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    Thanks for getting back to me. The current tasks for it would be making some planters at various angles. (The other half wants the garden to look a bit different and unique) so I would need multiple precise angles and just some normal rectangular angles. I will also be making some picture frames as well. I would also be sorting out some skirting around the house which is just had its day.

    That's what I know of so far but there could and probably will be more later on so I am looking at getting a decent and accurate saw which will last.

    Any recommendations for what's out there currently on the market? And what kind of saw blades should I look for?

    Thanks

    James
     
  10. morpheus83uk

    morpheus83uk

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    I have been looking around and Dewalt and Hitatchi seem to have really good reviews and recommendations.

    Would you be able to get say a 10" blade for a mitre saw which would be able to cut say a 300mm piece of wood at 90 degrees? What are peoples recommendations for whats out on the market currently? I would want something which is easy to set the angle and is accurate which will give me many years of good accurate life. Something which is sliding compound mitre saw either single or double but I am unsure as to what size blade to go for. I have read that 10" is more readily available but a 12" will give a better cut but are more expensive etc.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks

    James
     
  11. big-all

    big-all

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    you need a slider to get a decent width off cut
    the best you can hope for is around half the blade size as a width off cut if its not a slider
    dont forget you can flip the work to double the width off cut
    you can also pad out the base by say 12mm to give you perhaps an extra 20mm off cut width but will reduce the thickness you can cut
     
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  12. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    12in SCMS saws are absolutely massive - and very heavy. Very few tradesmen bother with them unless they are handling extremely large cuts because you can get 90% of the capacity of a 12in saw in a 10in SCMS - a smaller, lighter package. 12in "will give a better cut"? In what way? Utter tosh! A 12in saw will be more prone to both the frame flexing AND the blade flexing than smaller saws - my own experience of Makita, deWalt, Hitachi, Ryobi and Milwaukee 12in saws against their 10in bretheren leads me to that conclusion. They seem more prone to twisting (blade flex and/or frame flex) when making one-sided cuts, such as retrimming a large mitre than equivalent 10in saws (BTW the Hitachi and Ryobi were probably the two worst SCMSs I've ever had to use - if you must have a 12in SCMS then probably the best of the bunch is the DW780S, a workshop favourite in many joinery shops). Having said all this a lot of trade joiners these days have moved over to 8in (190~216mm) SCMS saws as they can handle the vast majority of framing and finishing work that you are likely to encounter. They are also more portable than 10in saws - important if you need to resite the saw as you move from place to place (e.g when skirting out a house)
     
  13. Roger928

    Roger928

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    Are you not keeping a lookout on gumtree?
    Another nice LS1013 for sale...
    https://www.gumtree.com/p/power-saws/makita-ls1013-saw/1276036359
    [​IMG]





    In new condition and cheap. Best scms ever made and nothing on the market today to touch it for quality. Have a brand new 10" dewalt scms sitting in my shed and the guy who owns it prefers to use my ole ls1013.
    Its the only scms ever made that has a spring return on the sliding rod carriage. Moving the rods above the table is a bad design imo. Its just loses the free running capability of the ls1013 design.
    And all the quality parts readily available....
    https://www.mtmc.co.uk/Makita-LS1013-Spare-Parts__p-75956.aspx
    If this was closer to me I'd pay £400 for this machine. Because thats how much I think its worth. And would still be cheap.
    And also I know joiners who would be happy to pay that.
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2017
  14. morpheus83uk

    morpheus83uk

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    Thanks for the link its too far away though as I am in Manchester.

    @JobAndKnock thanks I will look for the 10" then I am just looking around and reading about what to look out for so looking for recommendations on the market as I prefer to purchase new so I have the warranty when it comes to my tools.

    I have nothing against buying second hand equipment its just personal preference as my personally and friends of mine have all had bad experiences buying second hand. You get there it works you get it home it doesn't they say no refund due to it working when you were there or it only works for a couple of months / uses so spending a couple of hundred of pounds on second hand tools is just not for me. Once bitten and all that. Don't get me wrong I am not knocking any advice what so ever so please don't think I am as this is just personal preference.

    Thanks

    James
     
  15. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Really? Big and heavy. Prone to excessive wear on the detents of the turntable plate (my old LS1013 went through one and I know I'm not alone in having had that happen). Inadequate mitre range for skirtings in a lot of houses (most modern saws have 50 to 55 degree mitre range, the LS1013 is 47 or 48 degrees - may not sound much, but significant given that a lot of plasterers seem unable to fathom out how many degrees there are in a right angle). Small and difficult to read (and therefore inaccurate) bevel scale; having spent today using the firm's Makita (a smaller 8in model) I was reminded of this Makita "feature". Woefully inadequate dust extraction. Poor horseshoe fence casting design which always, but always ends up warping over time and is a PIA to adjust (again, today's "beater" had the self-same issue - I had to fit a false fence to get it to cut bevels that actually lined up at either end of 3 metre length of skirting). Finally the original mitre saw stand was an absolute joke - the building site equivalent of one of those deck chairs that your grandfather could never put up..... I'm not doubting that it was a good saw in it's day, I had one myself for quite a few years - but that day is now long gone and the world has moved on. I therefore think that your hyperbole is ever so slightly misplaced.

    BTW, instead of finding fault just try a Kapex - it will blow you away......
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2017
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