taking wall out

[johnad]

I want to take a wall out in my bungalow
The wall separates the lounge from the kitchen and is around 8ft long there is nothing coming down onto the top of the wall in the loft the only thing its supporting is the ceiling timbers as they meet over this wall from the two rooms so my question is what size rsj should I use to hold the ceiling timbers up also can this be done in the loft?
By laying timber beams across the existing joists and using joist hangers etc so the ceiling will not show the supporting beam?
Yes I expect this will come under building control but as its not supporting I was going to just get it done without? “Mums the word” would this cause any problems when I come to sell etc.
Advice please…….

 

[hotrod]

Yes I expect this will come under building control but as its not supporting I was going to just get it done without?

Errrrmm, but it is supporting. It's holding your roof up! Don't bypass Building Control on this it'll stick out like a sore thumb to any surveyor having a nosey in the loft. It can be done, no problem. Any chance of a photo?

 

[johnad]

As I said there is no roof timbers coming down onto the top of this wall just the ceiling timbers on each side the main roof structure has its supporting beams coming down onto the central hallway as the roof is hipped on all 4 sides so I would just need to take the weight of the ceilings.
I will try to post a picture as soon as I have the chance to get up there
What would be the procedure for building control?
And what is the cost?
Many thanks

 

[Static]

You should go down the building control route even if its a building notice..

The size of the beam will depend on the span of the ceiling joists each side of the wall..

Putting the beam into the ceiling joist area so you get flush soffit is tricky and fiddly work, thus often not worth the effort.. Downstand beams are alot easier to put in..

 

[simonjay]

Its a bungalow, so you can put the new support above the joists in the loft, and hang them from it.

No need to hide an RSJ within the joist space.
Simon.

 

[Static]

How would you propose to hang the joists from the beam and retain the lateral continuity of the joists?

 

[theoldun]

How would you propose to hang the joists from the beam and retain the lateral continuity of the joists?

Be very very interested in reading the answer to this question
old un.

 

[noseall]

How would you propose to hang the joists from the beam and retain the lateral continuity of the joists?

Be very very interested in reading the answer to this question
old un.

Building control will accept a beam that is offered up between the ceiling timbers (they would need to be cut to allow of course) whereby the beam has a timber bolted into each side of the flange with joist hangers fixed to these timbers, thus receiving the ceiling joists.

We have had this accepted as L.R in the recent past.

 

[ColJack]

they were asking how you'd do it with the RSJ over the top of the joists and the joists hangign from that, not "let into" the joists ie as you described above.

 

[noseall]

they were asking how you'd do it with the RSJ over the top of the joists and the joists hangign from that, not "let into" the joists ie as you described above.

...so?

Does my solution not stand?

The o.p. simply wants the beam hidden above the ceiling line.

The top of the beam may need chamfering to the roof pitch though...

 

[theoldun]

Its a bungalow, so you can put the new support above the joists in the loft, and hang them from it.

No need to hide an RSJ within the joist space.
Simon.

Static replied, How would you propose to hang the joists from the beam and retain the lateral continuity of the joists?

That is the question, I would have liked to have read the answer to.
Your explaination nose, is the way we would have gone, but it is not the way previously proposed or as Statics question. The OP was being given wrong information. You have put that right now
old un

 

[Static]

Agreed with above, two real options are to fit the beam as downstand below the ceiling joists.. nice and simple.. or as noseall says to fit between the joists, but this option is more fiddly and often more time consuming/costly..

Putting the beam above the ceiling joists adds alot of potential problems..
I can add to my first question to simonjay with these:
How would you fix the ceiling joists to the underside of the beam?
How do you stop torsional effects in the beam?
How would you propose to support the beam ends?

 

[ColJack]

they were asking how you'd do it with the RSJ over the top of the joists and the joists hangign from that, not "let into" the joists ie as you described above.

...so?

Does my solution not stand?

I wasn't trying to say anything about your solution you offered, merely pointing out that the people above were asking how the OP's idea of an RSJ above the ceiling joists would work..
I thought you were directly answering them and not offering the OP another solution..