Tax reform

[Odds]

...Mostly explained by the Laffer Curve - apart from the problem that it's impossible to know what the curve looks like or where the peak is.

I recall reading an excellent explanation many years ago, by way of a metaphor.
A group of 10 friends would meet up and go out for dinner on a regular basis. At the end, they'd split the bill - one paid a lot more because he was quite wealthy and could afford it, a couple paid nothing as they were very poor and the others covered their share of the bill, and the others paid various amounts based on their disposable income. Because they were regulars, the restaurateur decided to offer them a discount - which caused arguments over who would get what share of the rebate. The end result was that the person who was effectively paying for 3 or 4 meals decided he'd had enough and decided not to join them the next week - and thats' when the other 9 found they no longer had enough money to pay the bill.

Interestinnnng.

The Laffer curve was popularized in the United States with policymakers following an afternoon meeting with Ford Administration officials Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld in 1974, in which Arthur Laffer reportedly sketched the curve on a napkin to illustrate his argument. The term "Laffer curve" was coined by Jude Wanniski, who was also present at the meeting. The basic concept was not new; Laffer himself notes antecedents in the writings of the 14th-century social philosopher Ibn Khaldun and others.

After the second Iraq war and the subsequent financial crash i imagine many of 'em weren't laffin' then.

 

[blup]

It’s laughable that a £3million house only pays £380 a month council tax.

It’s laughable that someone in a £3 million house pays more to have their bin emptied. It’s as laughable as it would be to charge them more for health care because they live in a big house.

 

[blup]

taking a job that could be done by a tax-paying Briton.

The Great Brexhit Project has shown this doesn't work

 

[Justin Passing]

@Odds @blup , I tried to raise these before, but some folk seem to want to shout out "make the rich pay", regardless.

The big house probably has more refuse to be disposed of, sure, so there should be an element for that, but a factor for the value of the house is just like progressive tax, higher rates for higher earners.

There IS a good case imho for charging less per unit for power at the very bottom, but for carrots, everyone pays the same. Except, again people who get into the "free food" bracket at the bottom.
The free food bank used to be for excesses, near-outdated stuff, and so on. They seem to get supplies of fresh now. I dunno how that works.

Actually I Object. Carrots are really cheap. Everyone should have to pay for their carrots or they get institutionalised into the idea that they "deserve" to get stuff free.

 

[Justin Passing]

The commies tell us that raising the taxes of the wealthiest people will solve all the country's problems. If so, then why doesn't government just go ahead and do it?

The government has the authority and the power to do almost anything... they could hike income tax up to 90% for the top 1,000,000 people tomorrow morning. Why don't they?

So, their tax would, say, double.

The gov would have a big chunk of money coming in from say 3% of the taxpaying people. Having doubled it, they represent maybe 10 or 15% of the tax the gov gets.
So the rich people would find a way to not pay it, like leave the country.
Then the country loses that 10 or 15% of its income.
The country is poorer - all of the country.
The relatively rich may moan, but they manage, and survive.
The poor don't have enough money, so they don't.

The poor, would tend to be the thick people who ask questions like that.

 

[SPLINE]

There is a far greater threat to this country from Russsia, Trumpf and right wing politicians than a few home grown nutters.

If you could give me convincing reasons why Trump, Russia and rw politicians are a threat to this country I might believe you.

But you can't.

So, their tax woulblahd, say, doxpaying people. Blahepresent maybe 10 or 15% of the tax the gov gets.
So the rich he blah es that 10 or 15% of its income.
The country is poorer - all of the moan, but they manage, and survive.
The poor don't have the thick people who that.

Thanks Justin. It's as I suspected then, taxing the wealthy doesn't work. Note this blup.

 

[motorbiking]

"Tax those who don't vote labour tax."

 

[Mottie]

"Tax those who don't vote labour tax."

I thought they were already doing that. More of the same coming up in the budget then.

 

[blup]

If you could give me convincing reasons why Trump, Russia and rw politicians are a threat to this country I might believe you.

But you can't.

They are a greater threat

Thanks Justin. It's as I suspected then, taxing the wealthy doesn't work. Note this blup.

That wasn’t my takeaway from what Justin was saying

 

[Odds]

@Odds @blup , I tried to raise these before, but some folk seem to want to shout out "make the rich pay", regardless.

The big house probably has more refuse to be disposed of, sure, so there should be an element for that, but a factor for the value of the house is just like progressive tax, higher rates for higher earners.

There IS a good case imho for charging less per unit for power at the very bottom, but for carrots, everyone pays the same. Except, again people who get into the "free food" bracket at the bottom.
The free food bank used to be for excesses, near-outdated stuff, and so on. They seem to get supplies of fresh now. I dunno how that works.

Actually I Object. Carrots are really cheap. Everyone should have to pay for their carrots or they get institutionalised into the idea that they "deserve" to get stuff free.

It's not so much making them pay (although it is) - it's more about them finding ways to avoid paying the fair share of tax to the Exchequer.

 

[SPLINE]

The principle function of a government is not to provide a national health service and not to provide a welfare state - it is to protect the population, and our goverment is not doing that. It has no right to ask tax of anyone. The biggest threat to our country blup, is our government.

 

[noseall]

The principle function of a government is not to provide a national health service and not to provide a welfare state - it is to protect the population, and our goverment is not doing that. It has no right to ask tax of anyone. The biggest threat to our country blup, is our government.

Nonsense.

 

[morqthana]

The principle function of a government is not to provide a national health service and not to provide a welfare state - it is to protect the population, and our goverment is not doing that. It has no right to ask tax of anyone. The biggest threat to our country blup, is our government.

How many people are you prepared to see die to support that ideology?

 

[JohnD]

As above, what demand do they put on local services ?

I see we have a user who doesn't know that Council Tax is a Property Tax. He thinks it is a fee for use of local services.

 

[Mottie]

I see we have a user who doesn't know that Council Tax is a Property Tax. He thinks it is a fee for use of local services.

So what is it a fee for?