The riddle of the immovable latch & the off-centre door knob

[bwaj]

I'm looking for advice on what I can do with a door knob whose rose spills over the edge of the wood (by 2-3mm) on a glass-panelled door.

The full story:

We've just replaced all our internal doors, bar one 50-year old set of glass-panelled double doors. We've used the same model of door knob on all the new doors and also put that knob on the old double doors. We left the existing latch in place on the old doors because we wanted to minimise the risk of them being damaged by the changes we were making. (It would be nigh-on impossible to find a like-for-like replacement for them.)

I carefully measured things to ensure we got a 50mm-wide knob that would fit onto the 52mm-wide stretch of wood where the knob/handle has to go.

But my mistake: I did not check the location of the latch and thus did not realise that the spindle was not perfectly centred. Because the spindle is off to one side, the new knob is also off-centre and thus sticks out over the edge of the wood. See pictures.

What are my options for dealing with this?

I know it is a minor imperfection and far from being the end of the world. But it is annoying, especially after spending money on a carpenter who did the work.

 

[JohnD]

knobs are unsuitable for that position.
You will bang your knuckles when opening the door.
A lever is suitable.

you could use a slightly shorter latch. What is the length and backset of the existing latch? Is it a tubular latch?

 

[bwaj]

Hi @JohnD

I can't be certain about dimensions of the existing latch having never seen it out of the door, but the total length can't be any longer than 52mm (the width of that wooden section of door).

Yes, it is a tubular latch. Photo below.

No risk of knuckle-banging as the knob is in the middle of the double doors. See pic below.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

A lever is suitable.

you could use a slightly shorter latch. What is the length and backset of the existing latch? Is it a tubular latch?

I thought they only came in 44 and 57mm backset (distance from edge of door to centre of spindle) these days, to match standard Eurobarrel locks (Edit: I went off and informed myself better by looking through some of our supplier catalogues and came up with the snippet in a later post, below - there are actually five industry standard sizes). Looking at this photo:

it appears that the rose on the other side of the door is almost touching the rebate. If that is so, no chance of moving the knob without that rose overhanging the rebate (in which case the door won't open). A photo from the other side woukd confirm

So yes, it probably needs a handle as JohnD says

 

[JohnD]

Hi @JohnD

I can't be certain about dimensions of the existing latch having never seen it out of the door, but the total length can't be any longer than 52mm (the width of that wooden section of door).

Yes, it is a tubular latch. Photo below.

take it out and measure it.

it is not a tubular latch.

p.s.

please also check the actual width of the door style, subtracting any rebate, which determines the maximum width of the plate or rose.

You might perhaps find a beehive knob on plate, but they seem to be 50mm/2 inch width. Possibly an oval knob might have an oval rose.

You might consider a bail catch, with a beehive cupboard knob (smaller)

or look for an oval plate

 

[JohnD]

i have an aged bronze one of these on my front door, but if you knew the price you would fall off your chair.



however, slim handles and knobs on narrow plates are often used on plastic doors, and there may be something that would do in white or brass plate. it will not match your beehive knobs, though

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I can't be certain about dimensions of the existing latch having never seen it out of the door, but the total length can't be any longer than 52mm (the width of that wooden section of door).

Yes, it is a tubular latch.

As @JohnD says, it is NOT a tubular latch - tubular latches look like this:

and this screenshot show the industry standard lengths and backsets of tubular latches:

No 52mm length ones there - the shortest tubular latch is 64mm for a 45mm backset

 

[JohnD]

...but there are a surprising number of old-stock locks and latches around in funny sizes, especially Legge and Union ones. Mostly in imperial (inch) measurements though some have been relabelled in mm sizes which, on conversion, you can see are in 1/8" or 1/4" increments.

I have a few old Wellington latches and catches in square cases, which seem to be high quality. I have a few boxes and shelves of stuff I ought to put on ebay.

When I had an old house, I bought some spares from an old family locksmiths business when the old feller died and his sons had to clear the warehouse.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

As you can imagine I normally only fit new locks - where old doors are refurbished that have original locks in them either the locks get sent out for refurbishment or a traditional lockie will in some cases supply an exact replacement. That way we don't have to move the spindle holes, which you can never fully disguise. I don't mind filling in lock mortises and recutting them, but I do see far too many which have been bodged and never look right afterwards

 

[foxhole]

You can keep existing by replacing catch with a ball catch the knobs can then be centred .

 

[RandomGrinch]

...and if you were interested in a couple of bodges!

Do you know anyone with a lathe, that can take that outer ring of the rose off?

Or, cut out a recess for the rose to sit flush in the door!

But, I would probably go with JohnD as well! :

You might consider a bail catch

... And I think I would prefer the screw fixing to be a little more out of view, below the handle

 

[JohnD]

not sure if I spelled it right

I mean, the ones with a spring-loaded ball or roller.

i have some Wellington ones with a square case, they are usually tubular now.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...and if you were interested in a couple of bodges!

Do you know anyone with a lathe, that can take that outer ring of the rose off?

Not a bodge, a proper job - providing the metal isn't plated

 

[JohnD]

ah, "bale latch"

and the Wellington 2A

still made, I think. But too big for this job.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Horrible things...

Will they work on rebated sets? (look a bit short) Generally only see them on cupboards with plain edge door pairs