The shame of Grenfell

[JohnD]

"The cladding used on Grenfell Tower burnt 10 times faster than a sister product in a safety test conducted more than a decade before the deadly fire, but its manufacturer did not notify customers and continued selling the more flammable variant until after the blaze.

The failure to disclose the test results came to light on Tuesday at the inquiry into the 2017 fire at the London block of flats, in which 72 people died.

The inquiry was shown a document from 2004 which described the relative fire safety performance of two variants of Reynobond PE cladding sold by Arconic Architectural Products, the French subsidiary of US company Arconic, which supplied cladding to Grenfell: one in bent “cassette” form, the other a flat “riveted” panel.

The tests were carried out in France and found that the cassette version of the product burnt 10 times faster than the riveted version, producing seven times more heat."

FT.com

 

[sxturbo]

Couple of things

I can't believe they haven't yet concluded this yet, 3.5 years later.

Is it really that hard to look for evidence?

They seemed pretty quick to judge the fire service, but have been somewhat slow on progressing it further.

Personally I would have thought holding the manufactures, specifiers and building owners to account will have been more productive so that action can be held elsewhere on other similar buildings.

I can't believe that other buildings with questionable cladding still hasn't been changed and the likelihood is they still aren't going to be changed in the near future (maybe never be changed even, bunch of toffs trying to keep hold of their money and hoping that in a few years time all will be forgotten and they get to keep their money, maybe I'm being cynical)

 

[transam]

There are loads of flats with similar cladding the owners are basically living in worth less property

in Many instances facing finacial
Ruin through
No fault of there own

 

[Trazor]

Yes, Grenfell is a lasting shame on this government, and should have been sorted by now.

 

[just pumps]

The inquiry should be over and building owners not goverment or leaseholders should pay and not be allowed to hike up leases to claw the money back.

 

[sxturbo]

Grenfell is a lasting shame on this government, and should have been sorted by now.

Is it the government or the council's that own the buildings?

 

[ericmark]

When baby x died or what ever name was used, and it was shown the council social services had not done their job, both the councils and their employees were found responsible for the death, it may have been the parents who also were to blame, but it was the councils job to do something when it was realised the parents were not doing their job.

It should be the same with building regulations, it is not cheap to get planning permission, and the LABC in the same way as social services have a duty of care to check what the builder is doing is OK, be it cladding or a new estate built 12" too low, so likely to flood before water finds another route, the LABC is paid to ensure builders don't get it wrong.

So the big question is what proportion of the blame is directed to the LABC for missing the error, what proportion of blame to developer for selecting wrong product, what proportion to manufacturers for hiding details, and the list goes on.

So we have just had a law about rented property electrical systems, and the law includes a time scale, if there is no time scale then we have homeless, so there has to be a balance, but 3.5 years does seem a long time, in the same way as 28 days for electrical work seems rather a short time.

 

[JohnD]

Is it the government or the council's that own the buildings?

What Britain needs is a system of Building Regulations to prevent homes burning like Roman Candles

I suggest we have:

A Housing Minister in the government responsible for making it work

A testing and approval system for verifying that materials and processes are safe

A system of inspections and signoffs to confirm that homes have been built to the approved standards.

Quite obviously we do not have those things.

I think we should.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Yeah the whole thing stinks, findings pre/during construction regarding the flammable effectiveness of the cladding product maybe not overtly buried as such, however the company were aware and didn't act.

For those that were involved in not making the necessary changes (I mean the individuals not companies), and they'll know who they are even if the inquiry never pinpoints them, they need to live with the consequence of their actions or should I say lack of. However such people often don't have a conscious so they'll just be in avoiding blame mode.

The whole approach would have been different to the inquiry had the building been filled with middle/upper class folk especially if any of them were tory donors.

 

[Trazor]

The whole approach would have been different to the inquiry had the building been filled with middle/upper class folk especially if any of them were tory donors.

Possibly, the most least likely scenario, ever posted on DIYnot.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Possibly, the most least likely scenario, ever posted on DIYnot.

Obviously I don't mean the block as is, I mean if it had been a luxury block filled with monied folk.

 

[transam]

Claude smit ceo of a cladding manu admitted that they fiddled the fire test or with held info whilst conducting safety tests



Claude spoke through an interpreter at the enquiry as he is French





and the tests were carried out in
France

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Claude smit admitted that they fiddled the fire test or with held info whilst giving evidence to the enquiry

Claude spoke through an interpreter as he is French

and the tests were carried out in
France

And their UK General manager was English.
Do you honestly think the nationality of the employees made any difference to the outcome?
Or are you just being stupid and leaving your usual little piles of nonsense about, because your xenophobia is running rampant again

 

[JohnD]

All the government Housing Ministers who did nothing were also British.

 

[sxturbo]

What Britain needs is a system of Building Regulations to prevent homes burning like Roman Candles

I suggest we have:

A Housing Minister in the government responsible for making it work

A testing and approval system for verifying that materials and processes are safe

A system of inspections and signoffs to confirm that homes have been built to the approved standards.

Quite obviously we do not have those things.

I think we should.

Do we not already have that?

But the supplier celotex and this Arco company circumvented the system by fiddling the safety data sheets to show old information so they didn't have to admit the new stuff was no good....