The truth about 'Road Pricing'...
- Thread starter ellal
- Start date
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I understand what you're saying Stulz, the biggest problem is I don't trust the government, they only want to tell you what they want to tell you, so in theory they have to lie instead to get what they want.Stulz said:
In the late 90's, the new plastic card driving licences and when pressed the government, they have admit the driving licences have got chip inside the driver licence which contain insurances details right down to blood group & this information is available to the goverment employers and did you know they can even track your movement of where about if you're carry the driving licence on you! So hand up of those who knew this?
So how can we trust the government on the ID cards, I can see your good point Stulz but I feel it won't happen your way.
masona said:
Masona, where did you get that gem of anti-government paranoid crap?
There is no chip in your driving licence, it cannot be used to track you and how can it have insurance details on when you have likely changed your insurer since the licence was issued. Further, the vast majority of people in this country do not know their blood type, and unless you have had a reason to have your blood type matched, this is not going to appear on your medical records. I accept that a great many peoples records likely do have it on, but only because a medical situation has arisen that required it to be checked. Blood Type cross matching is only done in the event of blood transfusion or where someone will undergo major surgery. The other exception would be for those needing kidney dialysis or something similar.
I moved a few months ago and renewed by Licence, I have it here, there is no chip in it, it is a piece of fancy plastic.
Stulz: Congratulations, a clear post at last which outlines where you stand on ID cards.
You wrote:
I now find myself pretty much in agreement with your position (as highlighted in the last post).
And I would go a step further ...
If the Government stick to having the card simply as a means of identification with biometric data as required and frame the limitations of its use in legislation then I don't see any reason why the general public would have major objections.
Legislation is key as many people (rightly or wrongly) do not trust this, or any other, Government.
I fall into the camp of putting my faith with the legal process rather than politicians
You wrote:
Although I still don't agree that any of my comments have been silly
I now find myself pretty much in agreement with your position (as highlighted in the last post).And I would go a step further ...
If the Government stick to having the card simply as a means of identification with biometric data as required and frame the limitations of its use in legislation then I don't see any reason why the general public would have major objections.
Legislation is key as many people (rightly or wrongly) do not trust this, or any other, Government.
I fall into the camp of putting my faith with the legal process rather than politicians
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The same as everybody else, I'm reading it from the book quoting this.Stulz said:
I must apologise to you as I have missed part of it out, here the rest of it.
the photographs on driving licences will be readable by surveillance cameras installed to track the movements of cars and their occupants around England
Softus wrote
Not as daft as it sounds.
My son has just got back from Hong Kong, and whilst there bought a card which entitled him to use all the public transport during his stay.
When he went through the barriers he didnt have to take the card out of his wallet but simply wafted the wallet over the scanner.
We have the technology !
Just a few snippets of info!
The green ANPR cameras on most motorways and many main routes are DVLA but alert the police to stolen or untaxed vehicles. They have the software to detect average speed violations but as far as I am aware are not used executively for that yet. They are paid for as a prerequisit for road pricing trials.
The town centre cameras in Leamington have ANPR links to the local police.
Some cameras at filling stations in the Midlands are linked to police ANPR systems.
There have been new banks of ANPR cameras fitted on the NCR at Neasden and on the A41 at Hendon and at many other locations in NW and N London over the last few weeks.
A lot is going on quietly without any public information or discussion.
The speed camera on the 50/40 mph eastbound A40 is preceeded by an ANPR/visual camera. Perhaps to give pictures of the driver for speeders who claim its their granny driving!
Tony
The green ANPR cameras on most motorways and many main routes are DVLA but alert the police to stolen or untaxed vehicles. They have the software to detect average speed violations but as far as I am aware are not used executively for that yet. They are paid for as a prerequisit for road pricing trials.
The town centre cameras in Leamington have ANPR links to the local police.
Some cameras at filling stations in the Midlands are linked to police ANPR systems.
There have been new banks of ANPR cameras fitted on the NCR at Neasden and on the A41 at Hendon and at many other locations in NW and N London over the last few weeks.
A lot is going on quietly without any public information or discussion.
The speed camera on the 50/40 mph eastbound A40 is preceeded by an ANPR/visual camera. Perhaps to give pictures of the driver for speeders who claim its their granny driving!
Tony
A good point Tony, there is far more happening around invasion of privacy than the big public issues such as ID cards would have us believe.
The adage "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide" is often cited by pro-campaigners but misses the point that law abiding people of this country should have the right to live their lives as they choose without having every aspect of it recorded and monitored.
This fundamental right should not be lost simply to feed the paranoia spread by central Government regarding Terrorism, Crime, Immigration et al. Terrorism (for example) isn't simply about killing people, it's about disrupting the very fabric of society and, if we lose the very essence of what makes this country great in an attempt to combat terrorism, haven't we done the Terrorists job for them?
Who would have thought, even as little as 5 years ago, how quickly we would have moved towards Orwell's vision in such a short space of time.
Technology is currently developing faster than society is ready to safely utilise it IMO and this is potentially a dangerous thing.
The adage "If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide" is often cited by pro-campaigners but misses the point that law abiding people of this country should have the right to live their lives as they choose without having every aspect of it recorded and monitored.
This fundamental right should not be lost simply to feed the paranoia spread by central Government regarding Terrorism, Crime, Immigration et al. Terrorism (for example) isn't simply about killing people, it's about disrupting the very fabric of society and, if we lose the very essence of what makes this country great in an attempt to combat terrorism, haven't we done the Terrorists job for them?
Who would have thought, even as little as 5 years ago, how quickly we would have moved towards Orwell's vision in such a short space of time.
Technology is currently developing faster than society is ready to safely utilise it IMO and this is potentially a dangerous thing.
Now here Mega you and I are in total agreement, and I am glad that my last post helped to clear up the ID card matter..even though we don't agree on them.
The technology is moving so fast that I personally think some Government agencies are fouting the law and abusing their powers by introducing systems before Parliament and the public get a look in. Local Authorities actually have no legal right to operate ANPR camera systems, some get around this by having the feed go straight to the Police Camera room, but still not in the spirit of the law. ANPR is flawed. Yes it does work in 96% of cases accuratly, but illegal plates, obscurred plates or simply dirty plates confuse the system and give false positives and negatives. The Police are aware of this and it is why they always follow up ANPR positives with a personal visit.
The tracking of an individual by their photocard DL is not possible. The cards do not have any electronics in them and thus are useless for tracking purposes. Obviously this may change in the future, but it is about time there was a massive public debate on the whole issue of ID, data tracking and person tracking.
To track individuals simply living their lives would be inherently wrong, I would oppose something like that in the most vociferous way possible.
The technology is moving so fast that I personally think some Government agencies are fouting the law and abusing their powers by introducing systems before Parliament and the public get a look in. Local Authorities actually have no legal right to operate ANPR camera systems, some get around this by having the feed go straight to the Police Camera room, but still not in the spirit of the law. ANPR is flawed. Yes it does work in 96% of cases accuratly, but illegal plates, obscurred plates or simply dirty plates confuse the system and give false positives and negatives. The Police are aware of this and it is why they always follow up ANPR positives with a personal visit.
The tracking of an individual by their photocard DL is not possible. The cards do not have any electronics in them and thus are useless for tracking purposes. Obviously this may change in the future, but it is about time there was a massive public debate on the whole issue of ID, data tracking and person tracking.
To track individuals simply living their lives would be inherently wrong, I would oppose something like that in the most vociferous way possible.
I really do believe this is the battle we cannot win, once we join the EU, it's not if, it's when and once that happen, the UK will have no choice but to carry the ID cards because it is the EU policy from Brussel.Stulz said:
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