Thermostat - best replacement

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Hello and thank you for reading this message.

One of two thermostats broken. Honeywell. One controls downstairs and the other controls upstairs. Installed approximately 2006 in new build house. Gas central heating. New boiler installed 2018, believe Vaillant ecotec fit 24.

Photo attached.

Which would be a suitable replacement thermostat? Should both thermostats be replaced at the same time?

Thank you again for reading this post.

thermostat.jpg
 
If you are just looking for a simple replacement thermostat, then a wired thermostat made by any the major manufacturers [Honeywell, Danfoss, Drayton, Siemens] would be fine. Avoid cheap thermostats available from ''online shopping" sites, some are not really suited for use with UK heating systems, and the quality can be poor. With thermostats as most things you get what you pay for.

You don't have to replace both thermostats, from an electrical point of view, they are all simply on/off switches.

If one section of the heating associated with a thermostat has failed, this is not the most common failure point, so be sure it is the thermostat before you replace it.

Wireless thermostats tend to be more expensive than wired versions, and as in your case the wires are already in place they offer you no advantage, and may be a bit more involved to install. A wired thermostat on the other hand will be a straight swap for the existing one.

You do not need a programmable thermostat (one that controls both time and temperature) you could fit one, but if you did, the existing time controls need to be set to be permanently on 24/7

Some thermostats require 3 wire connections, the 2 switching wires and a neutral, others only have the 2 switching wires. This may effect your choice of replacement.

If you opened up the existing Honeywell, and it has been correctly installed, I would expect to see the following:

Live supply to terminal 1
Neutral to terminal 2
Switched live to terminal 3

On the other hand if it has been incorrectly installed there may only be wires connected to terminals 1 & 3. It will still work, but not be as accurate as it should be.

Therefore if there are only two wires, then you would need a battery powered thermostat, that only needs a two wire connection.

If you are looking for a smart thermostat, there is only one that I know of that is suitable for a 2 wire installation and that's Nest-e, but unless you want to rewire, the thermostat receiver would be located where the existing thermostat is presently sited.

Other smart thermostats (the most popular on this site are Nest Gen-3, Hive & Tado) will require a minimum of 3 wires, and once again the positioning of the receiver should be considered. If there is a stored hot water system (hot water cylinder) that also would be controlled by the smart thermostat, the wiring becomes more complicated.
 
Dear Stem,

Thank you for this very helpful reply. Thank you for giving your time on that and all the details. Much appreciated. Thank you.

The fault was the downstairs zone valve, I am told by Simon who looks after our central heating system. But the thermostat has been making a noise, it is a mains unit, and after searching there are the same units still available. So I a may install a new thermostat later.

Thank you again for your very helpful reply.
 
Hi
I came across this post after a Google search & also need advice on which smart thermostat I can use to replace my dumb Honeywell unit (same unit as pictured above).
I’ve had Nest in a few houses but I’ve found that my current thermostat only has 2 wires to 1 & 3 (plus an earth) so I’m guessing I’ll be limited to a Nest-e.
But I’ve read you also need a heatlink here in the UK for all Nest products. It will be controlling a Potterton Performa 30 HE (a gas combi with no hot water tank).
Any advice would be gratefully received so I can order the new thermostat while Amazon has its prime sale on during 8/9th October.
Thanks!
 

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As you have correctly figured, there should be a neutral connected to terminal 2, and as it's missing, the existing thermostat won't be working as accurately as it could.

Nest E is battery operated and so doesn't need a neutral. It comes with the Heatlink and that's where the two wires that are presently in terminals 1 and 3 go. No wires are connected to the remote Nest E Thermostat itself. The thermostat communicates with the Heatlink wirelessly.

145870-smart-home-review-hands-on-nest-thermostat-e-initial-review-image16-irgcqenlqw.jpg


In your photo of your existing thermostat, there is what appears to be an unused wire, if you can find the other end you may be able to connected it to a neutral that is part of the heating circuit and install a 3rd Gen Nest. Provided that you don't have to access any room sealed part of the boiler that is part of the combustion chamber to access it.

Another alternative is to start again from scratch. The mains powered Heatlink for Nest 3rd gen can then be located adjacent to the boiler or other convenient location rather than in the position of the old wired thermostat.

I see that you are new to the forum. For future reference you should really have started your own new thread. Adding your question to someone else's is known as 'hijacking' and against the forum rules. Plus there's also more chance of your post being seen as a new thread rather than being buried away at the bottom of an old one.
 
Thanks so much for the quick reply & apologies for breaking forum rules on my first go! The post was just so similar to my question that I thought it could be relevant.
I was reluctant to go into the boiler itself, but I’ll take the front panel off & if it looks easy I’ll get a Nest-e. I have installed one of these (and a 3rd Gen) before, but that was in a house in the USA where boilers are totally different & you don’t need a Heat Link.
If it looks even vaguely beyond me I’ll call in a professional installer.
Shame Tado isn’t a simple option though (unless I can find that 3rd wire) since I quite like the idea of individually programmable TRVs.
Thanks again.
 
Shame Tado isn’t a simple option though (unless I can find that 3rd wire) since I quite like the idea of individually programmable TRVs.
The Tado can be a simple option.
If your existing thermostat is in a convenient position, the Tado smart 3+ "Wired" thermostat is a battery powered thermostat; it will replace your existing stat, without needing a neutral connection.

Screenshot_20241008-130134_Adobe Acrobat.jpg


 
OK many options, a cheap battery powered thermostat like this, ae235.jpgwill work and give you a programmable temperature so it can change through the day.

Only wireless smart version is as @stem says, the Nest e, any other wireless thermostat will need to be fitted at the boiler. So just fitted Wiser, they use same back plate as Hive, but Wiser has three versions, and Hive only two. Also Wiser has OpenTherm, Hive does not, and not that much more expensive, but the whole idea of the more expensive versions be it Hive, Wiser, ecoHome, Tado etc, is the TRV is King.

These more expensive thermostats with the exception of the silly Nest, are more hubs than thermostats, and each room becomes its own zone.

So big question why zone the zones? In my house I have a garage turned into a flat under the main house, so yes my main house and the flat are now two independent zones, so most of the winter the flat is not heated, there is enough heat from the boiler running not to freeze anything. But main house, 4 bedrooms are not used as bedrooms, one is an office, one a craft room, so I want each room independent;y controlled. So to have zone valves up and down stairs for me would not work, so I have 9 motorised TRV heads, so to some extent the rooms are all independent, I say to some extent as clearly if boiler not running the rooms will not heat up.

Linked TRV heads are around £60 each, and non linked £20 both are programmable, at the moment non of mine are linked, I have just fitted a Wiser thermostat so now I can if I want use a linked TRV head.

However the Wiser thermostat works with two AA batteries, and can be either wall mounted, or put on a table, so could simply move it room to room to ensure boiler fires when required. The TRV heads do the important work.

So the Wiser as an example 1728390798464.png the hub to left comes as three versions, the three channel 1728390917120.pngwill work two zones for heating and one for DHW, the two channel will work one zone for heating and one for DHW, so even though you don't need control for DHW likely you would still need the three channel version.

Or combine both zones together, and once you have programmable TRV heads, no real need for zones, so the stumbling block is the price. 1728391228774.png£488 takes some getting back in reduced gas bills, the hub would go next to boiler, and the existing zone valves would work together or could be removed, but as said, I have just got a single zone Wiser because areas of my main house were not getting to temperature required before the hall wall mounted thermostats switched off. So not got to save money, got for better comfort, but I have oil not gas, and big difference is oil does not modulate, that is turn down output.

So with gas, why have a wall thermostat? In winter the boiler runs all day, but not flat out, sequence of events should be, boiler starts and all TRV's are open, so all rooms heat, as each room gets close to temperature required the TRV's start to close, as this happens more water is forced though those still open, until the pressure is enough to lift the by-pass valve, then hot water is returned to the boiler, and so the boiler reduced output, so each radiators cools, but they do not switch off, so there is little or no hysteresis in the rooms temperature, it is maintained as set.

But there is one flaw, as summer arrives it will never switch off, it will keep firing up, seeing if the return water is hot or not, and turning off again, so better if we have some thing (wall thermostat for example) to turn boiler off. If linked to the TRV heads then great, but even without careful adjustment of the lock shield valves one can with gas (not oil as oil is digital i.e. on/off gas is better, it is analogue and for central heating analogue is king) get a reasonable result without linking.

Where it all gets complex is when you want to turn off whole house or rooms, so then we look as a sequence, kitchen used first on return home, so we turn that room on first, closely followed by dinning room, closely followed by living room, this can speed up the reheat.

Three of my TRV heads and my Nest Gen 3 thermostat have option for geofencing, so turn on as you arrive home, not found it works too well to be frank, detects my return too late. A google says
You can automate Wiser's Away Mode by allowing smart heating geofencing to save energy while you're out of the house. Once registered, simply link your account to IFTTT in Settings, then visit the Wiser Home integrations channel on the IFTTT site to download the Applets and you're ready to go.
not tried it, did try using IFTTT when it was free with the Energenie TRV heads, not impressed. IFTTT = If this then that.

The Smart technology works well once set up, I use voice commands, with Nest Mini's (Alexa is same idea) but setting it all up to start with is not so easy. Maybe my age at 73 I don't catch on so fast.
 
The Tado can be a simple option.
Some debate on if all 230 volt used with central heating should come from the same circuit? Clearly Nest allows one to power the thermostat from an adaptor 230 volt to 5 volt (USB) which is powering it from a different circuit, even if isolated from each other, so the same applies with any thermostat with volt free contacts, however if I have a power cut, central heating continues to work, as all 230 volt comes from one UPS supplied FCU. If I used a USB supply to my Nest thermostat, the internal battery is very small, and within an hour I would have no heating.

The Wiser and Hive system the back plate is the same for single, double, and triple channel units, but only the single channel is volt free, plus the Wiser also has the OpenTherm option. The excuse used is could fit wrong unit for not using independent supply, but wrong unit would cause many more problems as well, so rather a weak argument, but plumbers clearly follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter? So since manufacturer says all must come from same 230 volt supply (note often does not say circuit, and most houses only have one supply) they insist all comes from one FCU, but don't seem to care if it comes from within the boiler, and so through the boilers fuses, so don't seem to care if from same circuit.

I realise this will likely go over the head of non electricians, however there is some debate over that simple option.
 
The Tado can be a simple option.
If your existing thermostat is in a convenient position, the Tado smart 3+ "Wired" thermostat is a battery powered thermostat; it will replace your existing stat, without needing a neutral connection.

View attachment 358188

This looks interesting. So I can use a Tado Wired unit to replace my wall thermostat unit with no need for anything else to be wired to the boiler. If so, that’s the route I’d prefer.
Here’s the wiring I found inside the boiler. Haven’t tested yet to see if one of the neutrals connects to the thermostat, but my guess is that it will.
 

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This looks interesting. So I can use a Tado Wired unit to replace my wall thermostat unit with no need for anything else to be wired to the boiler. If so, that’s the route I’d prefer.
Here’s the wiring I found inside the boiler. Haven’t tested yet to see if one of the neutrals connects to the thermostat, but my guess is that it will.
PS - the Tado wired is 50% off on Amazon Prime day here in the UK right now which is one of the reasons why I’m interested in it.
 

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So I can use a Tado Wired unit to replace my wall thermostat unit with no need for anything else to be wired to the boiler.
Yes, simply connect the wires in terminals 1 and 3 of your current thermostat into Tados terminals NO and COM - which wire goes into which terminal isn't important.

However, it appears that you do have the required wires spare at the boiler, to provide a neutral to the thermostat, if you wished to have a mains powered unit.
 

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